Addiction
01-05-2007, 09:22 PM
#181
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Smoking
I think that comparing Smoking having sex with strangers is a little far fetched as mentioned before. Try to compare flying with other types of vocations and not other things. Every one has to work or they choose to be poor. I choose not to smoke but by doing so I am not giving up some thing else (exept for I light buz I guess). I know your going to quote the parralels, but lets be realsitic. I if I choose to fly I might give up some things in order to gain others.
Instead why don't you talk about the other careers/attitudes that harm families besides flying. You could spend as little time or as much time with your family that you want. However if you choose to go out and drink or pour all of you time and energy into your profession you are doing more harm then the pilot who is gone all the time and sacrifices moments with his family. If I choose to re-marry then that is my choice, if I fall so in love with my mate that it makes me quit flying, so be it thats my choice. If I choose to bring a child into this world, and I am not getting enough time with him/her, and quit flying. That is my CHOICE.
You say you are here to warn younger kids about flying, and provide some balance, then I am as otheres are here, to warn them about making the wrong choice by not going for what they truly want out of life. I am sure you can't argue the logic, since you went for what you wanted. Time with your kids and family. And unfortunately flying and family couldn't co-exist any longer in your eyes.
"Taking the 172 about the patch is fun. Sitting in front of the flicker of CRT's, arms folded in your lap while the computer is flying the same fully automated ILS approach that you have already done for the third time that day isn't. "
Skyhigh
This is very true. And I only have about 200 hours doing it. But this is the reason I think I am going to stay in the corporate world, 91/91k. Theres something fun about hand flying a Lear 45 at 17.5/16.5 for 200 miles, decending and entering a vfr pattern the same way you would at your home airport.
P R
__________________
Instead why don't you talk about the other careers/attitudes that harm families besides flying. You could spend as little time or as much time with your family that you want. However if you choose to go out and drink or pour all of you time and energy into your profession you are doing more harm then the pilot who is gone all the time and sacrifices moments with his family. If I choose to re-marry then that is my choice, if I fall so in love with my mate that it makes me quit flying, so be it thats my choice. If I choose to bring a child into this world, and I am not getting enough time with him/her, and quit flying. That is my CHOICE.
You say you are here to warn younger kids about flying, and provide some balance, then I am as otheres are here, to warn them about making the wrong choice by not going for what they truly want out of life. I am sure you can't argue the logic, since you went for what you wanted. Time with your kids and family. And unfortunately flying and family couldn't co-exist any longer in your eyes.
"Taking the 172 about the patch is fun. Sitting in front of the flicker of CRT's, arms folded in your lap while the computer is flying the same fully automated ILS approach that you have already done for the third time that day isn't. "
Skyhigh
This is very true. And I only have about 200 hours doing it. But this is the reason I think I am going to stay in the corporate world, 91/91k. Theres something fun about hand flying a Lear 45 at 17.5/16.5 for 200 miles, decending and entering a vfr pattern the same way you would at your home airport.
P R
__________________
Yes, it is your choice and I wouldn't dream of making it for you. My aim is to simply get you and others to consider some of the other aspects that perhaps they didn't have the perspective to consider before. Every year thousands drop out of aviation because they didn't realise how little pilots were paid, how slim the odds are of making it to one of the better jobs or how long they would have to be away from home.
Frequently I receive PM's from others who never reply to one of my posts but read them all the same and have changed their plans as a result. You obviously are on your way. Though I am genuinely concerned for your happiness the ones who I am really writing to are the silent lurkers who read the dialog and hopefully gain something from it.
Skyhigh
01-05-2007, 10:14 PM
#182
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 47
Thanks for your concern Skyhigh. I do realize what you are trying to do.
My wish for you this year, is that you get back into your own airplane and go shoot some touch and go's, maybe a hundred dollar burger. Just give it one day, and I think you may still have a soft spot in your heart for flying, not aviation. Flying is fun, aviation is a job. It would probably do wonders for you current view of flying. If it doesn't, beers are on me whenever your in SoCal.
P R
PS I was one of those lurkers for a long time
My wish for you this year, is that you get back into your own airplane and go shoot some touch and go's, maybe a hundred dollar burger. Just give it one day, and I think you may still have a soft spot in your heart for flying, not aviation. Flying is fun, aviation is a job. It would probably do wonders for you current view of flying. If it doesn't, beers are on me whenever your in SoCal.
P R
PS I was one of those lurkers for a long time
01-07-2007, 05:47 AM
#183
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Positive Rate
Thanks for your concern Skyhigh. I do realize what you are trying to do.
My wish for you this year, is that you get back into your own airplane and go shoot some touch and go's, maybe a hundred dollar burger. Just give it one day, and I think you may still have a soft spot in your heart for flying, not aviation. Flying is fun, aviation is a job. It would probably do wonders for you current view of flying. If it doesn't, beers are on me whenever your in SoCal.
P R
PS I was one of those lurkers for a long time
My wish for you this year, is that you get back into your own airplane and go shoot some touch and go's, maybe a hundred dollar burger. Just give it one day, and I think you may still have a soft spot in your heart for flying, not aviation. Flying is fun, aviation is a job. It would probably do wonders for you current view of flying. If it doesn't, beers are on me whenever your in SoCal.
P R
PS I was one of those lurkers for a long time
I few year ago just after I was laid off I applied to our local jail. The pay and benefits were great, the hours were not but it seemed like a good job. Do you work in the control room or are you on the floor with a baseball bat?
You alluded to being an aircraft owner. Do you own a piper Apache?
I am not so sure that I would have any fun flying my plane again. I have seen the phenomenon several times where a guy quits aviation and the love and interest just dries up like it was never there. I have a very good friend who I was a CFI and bush pilot with. At 4500 hours he moved to southern California and couldn't find another flying job. He even built a kit plane but couldn't make himself fly it. He shared a hangar at the Chino airport. When I asked him about it he claimed to have enjoyed building it but had zero interest in flying it at all.
Two days ago I was on the phone with another ex-CFI co-worker. He was one of my first bosses in aviation. He is also an IA authorized A&P. Last winter he couldn't find a job in aviation that paid well enough and took a job building fishing boats. Last week he gave his father his last BFR and put all his flying stuff in a box and declared that it was his last flight. From now on he intends to let his currency lapse and to forget about the entire venture.
After all these years I can't imagine what I would do with a small plane. There is no place I want to go and no adventures left undone. Touch and go's have as much appeal as mowing the lawn. I have lost my main purpose for flying and therefore my the main motive for keeping up with it after the simple act has become mondaine.
I have seen it happen to pilots many times. I had a similar experience with fishing. I use to love to fish but after spending years in Alaska catching 10 pound rainbows and king salmon the though of going to the local pond wasn't that appealing anymore.
Skyhigh
01-07-2007, 08:20 PM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 585
Why should this thread die? There are hundreds of folks out there longing to fly and being discouraged by depressed people who can't quite believe they gave this up.
I could go back to being a very small carpet stain in a very big company. My previous career was what Scott Adams draws in his Dilbert cartoon. I worked at both Pac Bells.
I walked out after the thought of picking people off from the airport beacon tower in the parking became too real. I think I was in line to be hired permanently that day, too. My boss owned his own aircraft and had a great time flying it. But after spending 36 fricking hours awake at ground zero during Y2K, and seeing that nothing changed, the problems just got worse, the stupid management decisions got more stupid, and I was spending most of my time telling people they could reboot their computers because there would be no fix to the problem causing their software to lock up, I had it. I've faced death in an airplane and that experience was thousands of times better than the best day spent as the assistant carpet stain to the understudy peon at mega-global corporation.
I walked away and became a CFI. I walked out of two schools before I found one I liked. I now own the place. All the stuff I hated about the other places, we don't do it at my place.
No matter what your dream, follow it. Don't be stupid and throw away everything on a whim. Research it. Find out where others have failed, find out where others have succeeded.
Stay away from the 'downers'. They'll never be happy no matter where they are and your being happy just makes them madder. Hang out with happy people and your life will be that much happier, no matter what you do.
Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
I could go back to being a very small carpet stain in a very big company. My previous career was what Scott Adams draws in his Dilbert cartoon. I worked at both Pac Bells.
I walked out after the thought of picking people off from the airport beacon tower in the parking became too real. I think I was in line to be hired permanently that day, too. My boss owned his own aircraft and had a great time flying it. But after spending 36 fricking hours awake at ground zero during Y2K, and seeing that nothing changed, the problems just got worse, the stupid management decisions got more stupid, and I was spending most of my time telling people they could reboot their computers because there would be no fix to the problem causing their software to lock up, I had it. I've faced death in an airplane and that experience was thousands of times better than the best day spent as the assistant carpet stain to the understudy peon at mega-global corporation.
I walked away and became a CFI. I walked out of two schools before I found one I liked. I now own the place. All the stuff I hated about the other places, we don't do it at my place.
No matter what your dream, follow it. Don't be stupid and throw away everything on a whim. Research it. Find out where others have failed, find out where others have succeeded.
Stay away from the 'downers'. They'll never be happy no matter where they are and your being happy just makes them madder. Hang out with happy people and your life will be that much happier, no matter what you do.
Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
01-07-2007, 09:34 PM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Serenity is self-induced
Wisdom! For every unhappy worker, in any career or at any income level, there is probably a happy one who is doing the same job for the same paycheck. The former is focused on what he doesn't have, and the latter on what he does have. Aspiration to a better career should be based on optimism about the future, not hatred of the present. When we do get that new job, we'll probably bring our old attitudes with us, for better or worse.
01-08-2007, 05:08 AM
#187
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Success
Everyone must admit that career success and accomplishment of ones goals has an effect upon happiness, right? In addition most others would asses that there is not enough room at the top for everyone. Now you can either be happy attempting to satisfy your pilot dreams or you can be happy in life. Unless you are one of the lucky few who gets hired at a strong major airline while still young, one will take from the other.
Just because you had a bad time at the office dose not mean that everyone dislikes or is having a bad time at the office. The same could be said of aviation however I maintain that it is much more difficult to find overall happiness as a pilot due to the transient low wage nature of the job and due to the decay of future prospects.
Some here choose to see my position as dark and negative. The opposite is true. To someone who has an illegal drug habit advocates who were prior addicts and now work against the practice are considered to be negative. I see my efforts as liberating. I have broken the spell of aviation and can point to a better life. There is life after flying and it is fantastic to experience daily returns of hobbies and interest I lost years ago to the nomadic and disconnected life I lived as a pilot.
Happiness also depends upon your position and status. Two pilots might work for the same company. They both are pilots. They both wear mostly the same uniform and sit in front of the same plane. Both have nearly the same training and background. The difference is that one was hired six months prior than the other and now earns significantly more and enjoys the satisfaction of command while gaining useful and future enhancing experience. The other pilot adds another near worthless line in his log book and wastes another day of his life.
I freely admit that had I been able to reach a better place in aviation I would most likely be singing a different tune right now. In my experience a tiny few made it and of those few who did their jobs often hang by a thread. Fate could be dealing them the worst hand of all. It would be merciless to be strung along at a good job only to be mergered out of existence at 45. The older we get the worse it is to have to start over.
The keys to success and career happiness depends upon many variables. As a pilot most of the elements are totally out of our control. Luck plays the largest roll.
Skyhigh
Just because you had a bad time at the office dose not mean that everyone dislikes or is having a bad time at the office. The same could be said of aviation however I maintain that it is much more difficult to find overall happiness as a pilot due to the transient low wage nature of the job and due to the decay of future prospects.
Some here choose to see my position as dark and negative. The opposite is true. To someone who has an illegal drug habit advocates who were prior addicts and now work against the practice are considered to be negative. I see my efforts as liberating. I have broken the spell of aviation and can point to a better life. There is life after flying and it is fantastic to experience daily returns of hobbies and interest I lost years ago to the nomadic and disconnected life I lived as a pilot.
Happiness also depends upon your position and status. Two pilots might work for the same company. They both are pilots. They both wear mostly the same uniform and sit in front of the same plane. Both have nearly the same training and background. The difference is that one was hired six months prior than the other and now earns significantly more and enjoys the satisfaction of command while gaining useful and future enhancing experience. The other pilot adds another near worthless line in his log book and wastes another day of his life.
I freely admit that had I been able to reach a better place in aviation I would most likely be singing a different tune right now. In my experience a tiny few made it and of those few who did their jobs often hang by a thread. Fate could be dealing them the worst hand of all. It would be merciless to be strung along at a good job only to be mergered out of existence at 45. The older we get the worse it is to have to start over.
The keys to success and career happiness depends upon many variables. As a pilot most of the elements are totally out of our control. Luck plays the largest roll.
Skyhigh
01-08-2007, 05:37 AM
#188
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Aim low
Wisdom! For every unhappy worker, in any career or at any income level, there is probably a happy one who is doing the same job for the same paycheck. The former is focused on what he doesn't have, and the latter on what he does have. Aspiration to a better career should be based on optimism about the future, not hatred of the present. When we do get that new job, we'll probably bring our old attitudes with us, for better or worse.
All human progress has been made by dissatisfied people. I have several content friends that I have passed along the way. A few still work at the same convenience store / gas stations that I worked at as a teenager. They are very content to sell $1.99 burritos and then to go home to their parents house and smoke pot.
Perhaps it is a blessing to be content with less? I can not honestly answer that. However I can testify to the relentless desire I had for the life I have now. My pilot dreams were a big part of what I had hoped for in my future. In the end however aviation proved more to be an obstacle to that better life and had to be discarded
I have an ex-coworker friend who just turned 70 last summer. He has spent his entire life working as a professional pilot out of a smaller airport in a rural town. He advanced from CFI to crop duster and eventually to part 135 multi engine IFR pilot. His company moved into light jets over a decade ago and as their senior pilot he was asked to attend training to fly them. He turned them down and oddly choose to remain in the turbine powered twins. He is satisfied with where he is and God bless him.
The younger guys on the flight line were oddly uneasy with the pace of their progress. They did not like being "stuck" in the piston twins. While at lunch they would conspire to get hired at regionals and LCC's. Over time most did move on to often disastrous futures. All the while my friend kept silently taking the piston and turbine twin trips with a smile upon his face.
He is content, the trade off is that he has never earned that much money, never got married and lives with his parents till they passed away and still lives in their house today. He is content but he also hasn't accomplished much either.
To some aviation is only a part of their life goals, to others it is their only life goal. Aim low and you will not be dissapointed.
Skyhigh
01-08-2007, 06:31 AM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
If you are talking about being a CAPT to get that all too important PIC Jet time in order to move on..........I agree. If you look at the FDX seniority system our JR 727 Capts have are over 3/4 the way down the overall seniority list (3900 out of 4800 total). Our wide body Capt are at the 65%.
Many FO could have held CAPT years ago but choose to put quality of life ahead of money.........imagine that, what a concept.
