Zimmerman is not guilty!!!
07-15-2013, 02:19 PM
#51
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Comments apt to be misconstrued.
As a doc, any policy that increases the likelihood of sustained violence and threats to health, I am against.
As a doc, any policy that increases the likelihood of sustained violence and threats to health, I am against.
Last edited by cardiomd; 07-15-2013 at 02:53 PM.
07-15-2013, 02:20 PM
#52
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The facts do say that Zimmerman exited his vehicle and initially began to chase Martin, but then stopped. Perhaps Martin should have ran home or called the police, but then again if he was hiding from Zimmerman maybe he didn't want to compromise his position and/or want Zimmerman to know where he lived.
What is most troublesome for me is had Martin killed Zimmerman by use of force or with his weapon, then it would be is for Martin to be found not guilty as well under Florida's "Stand Your Ground Laws".
07-15-2013, 02:32 PM
#53
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I do hope you do realize there is a continuous realm of "instigating." It creates a silly unstable situation like you'd see in some third-world country. Going near an Ohio State game with a Michigan jersey and shouting for the away team might start a bar-fight, and yes, a nose might be broken. Was wearing the jersey instigation? How about shouting something about their team?
Losing a fight results in some lost pride. Introduce a "justified" gun use into the mix and a whole host of situations are suddenly very, very lethal. It treats a very grey area with a black and white lens. I don't know why this is hard for so many people to understand.
If some of my (particularly younger) relatives saw a big Hispanic guy following them on their way home, I think a similar thing might have happened. Perhaps that is the Italian blood (we are emotional people).
The guy that did it would not have long to live after being released back into the wild (we are emotional people). He would vanish without a trace. Escalating violence.
I've seen a lot of GSW in my time, and every one is tragic. Almost all are unneccessary. Before you go there (as people tend to) I have a CCW permit. I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-vigilante. I'm anti-cop-wannabe. I am called to the ER to see if I can do anything for a gunshot way too often.
Cops have organized training, and hopefully wouldn't get their butts kicked by a 17 year old kid who "attacked" them. I'm surprised people defend this guy.
07-15-2013, 02:48 PM
#54
Junior Senior
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geez, and I thought I was the only Italian on here.... 
07-15-2013, 02:58 PM
#55
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Point is, different people have different ideas about "instigation." Some of my friends, and possibly relatives, would probably have either beaten Zimmerman when they saw him following them, or possibly killed him. Feared for their life, stalked by a big strange man. I'd defend them, but I can see both sides of any argument.
07-15-2013, 04:44 PM
#57
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Agreed with this ridiculous bias. Knowing MMA is not a crime, being "into MMA" is not a crime. It doesn't make you a thug. Lots of my family is into martial arts and there are even some Krav Maga experts here. He was a 17 year old kid, I don't know many kids that haven't gotten into a schoolyard fight at some time in their lives.
My son won't look like Trayvon. However, if one day he, or any member of my family, went to the convenience store and didn't come back, shot dead, because somebody followed him with a gun, I'd be beyond angry. And his "knowing MMA" or being a better fighter than somebody who was chasing him, shouldn't be an excuse for death. I could go to any number of places and provoke a fight then shoot the person dead if/when they get the upper hand. Not that hard to do and sets a really dangerous precedent. In fact, if GZ had some decent MMA training maybe he wouldn't have had to use a gun. That guy looks like he couldn't even run a quarter mile.
Is it true GZ applied repeatedly and failed to get into any police department? I can't tell anymore what are facts vs spin, but the guy just rubs me the wrong way. He was trying to be a hero and instead picking on members of his own neighborhood with tragic consequences.
I predict GZ will get a huge civil penalty (he is, ultimately, responsible for the events; if he stayed in his car none of this would have happened.) Then, after awhile, if he behaves himself and stays out of trouble, nothing further will happen. However, also likely he will become just like OJ and wind up in trouble for something else, where the book will (should) be thrown at him.
My son won't look like Trayvon. However, if one day he, or any member of my family, went to the convenience store and didn't come back, shot dead, because somebody followed him with a gun, I'd be beyond angry. And his "knowing MMA" or being a better fighter than somebody who was chasing him, shouldn't be an excuse for death. I could go to any number of places and provoke a fight then shoot the person dead if/when they get the upper hand. Not that hard to do and sets a really dangerous precedent. In fact, if GZ had some decent MMA training maybe he wouldn't have had to use a gun. That guy looks like he couldn't even run a quarter mile.
Is it true GZ applied repeatedly and failed to get into any police department? I can't tell anymore what are facts vs spin, but the guy just rubs me the wrong way. He was trying to be a hero and instead picking on members of his own neighborhood with tragic consequences.
I predict GZ will get a huge civil penalty (he is, ultimately, responsible for the events; if he stayed in his car none of this would have happened.) Then, after awhile, if he behaves himself and stays out of trouble, nothing further will happen. However, also likely he will become just like OJ and wind up in trouble for something else, where the book will (should) be thrown at him.
This case is one of self defense against assault with intent, trying to spin it any other way makes you look a little funny.
Forget the race, the backgrounds and the media-one man assaulted another and it didn't turn out well. End of story.
There really isn't any more to say except acting like a thug is eventually going to end badly for all involved.
07-15-2013, 05:03 PM
#58
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I think therein lies the reason that this case has got so much attention. The case has been molded into a case about race, gun laws, and civil rights.
Personally, I think the president should be ashamed of himself for attempting to use this kid's death as a form of media attention. I'd expect that type of garbage from ol' Al and Jesse, but not from our commander in chief. Can't say was surprised by that though.
Perhaps I'm in the minority of people because I'm not even looking at the racial aspects of this case.
My one and only question for people who believe Zimmerman was well within his right is this....How was Trayvon Martin supposed to know that George Zimmerman wasn't some deranged serial killer/rapist?
The facts do say that Zimmerman exited his vehicle and initially began to chase Martin, but then stopped. Perhaps Martin should have ran home or called the police, but then again if he was hiding from Zimmerman maybe he didn't want to compromise his position and/or want Zimmerman to know where he lived.
What is most troublesome for me is had Martin killed Zimmerman by use of force or with his weapon, then it would be is for Martin to be found not guilty as well under Florida's "Stand Your Ground Laws".
For what it's worth I do believe Zimmerman's version of the story. I'm partially playing devil's advocate here, but honestly I just feel as though this thing quickly got out of hand for both Zimmerman and Martin.
Personally, I think the president should be ashamed of himself for attempting to use this kid's death as a form of media attention. I'd expect that type of garbage from ol' Al and Jesse, but not from our commander in chief. Can't say was surprised by that though.
Perhaps I'm in the minority of people because I'm not even looking at the racial aspects of this case.
My one and only question for people who believe Zimmerman was well within his right is this....How was Trayvon Martin supposed to know that George Zimmerman wasn't some deranged serial killer/rapist?
The facts do say that Zimmerman exited his vehicle and initially began to chase Martin, but then stopped. Perhaps Martin should have ran home or called the police, but then again if he was hiding from Zimmerman maybe he didn't want to compromise his position and/or want Zimmerman to know where he lived.
What is most troublesome for me is had Martin killed Zimmerman by use of force or with his weapon, then it would be is for Martin to be found not guilty as well under Florida's "Stand Your Ground Laws".
For what it's worth I do believe Zimmerman's version of the story. I'm partially playing devil's advocate here, but honestly I just feel as though this thing quickly got out of hand for both Zimmerman and Martin.
07-15-2013, 05:15 PM
#59
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I'd beg to differ. You just are not conscious of them.
Point is, different people have different ideas about "instigation." Some of my friends, and possibly relatives, would probably have either beaten Zimmerman when they saw him following them, or possibly killed him. Feared for their life, stalked by a big strange man. I'd defend them, but I can see both sides of any argument.
Point is, different people have different ideas about "instigation." Some of my friends, and possibly relatives, would probably have either beaten Zimmerman when they saw him following them, or possibly killed him. Feared for their life, stalked by a big strange man. I'd defend them, but I can see both sides of any argument.
Try to stick to the facts and not use spin words to advance your motive.
07-15-2013, 09:29 PM
#60
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Posts: 417
I got no horse in this race, but I do want to point out that Trayvon (like 95% of modern teens) was a dumbass old high school kid. He also likely wasn't fully developed mentally to assess situations and make what we all would agree would be a reasonable decision to walk away. Regardless, if he did proceed to confront homeboy again, then that's on him.
At the end of the day, the jury knows more than any of us possibly will barring reading every document presented during the trial and they made their decision. I was very surprised that he got off entirely though based on all the hype. Though not much comes through across the Atlantic...
My main interest news wise is the Asiana crash, so I will remain on that thread to discuss the outcome / argue / express opinion / etc
At the end of the day, the jury knows more than any of us possibly will barring reading every document presented during the trial and they made their decision. I was very surprised that he got off entirely though based on all the hype. Though not much comes through across the Atlantic...
My main interest news wise is the Asiana crash, so I will remain on that thread to discuss the outcome / argue / express opinion / etc
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