Zimmerman is not guilty!!!
07-16-2013, 05:14 PM
#91
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
[QUOTE=Red Forman;1446210]I'm not answering for AZ, but wanted to put forth my opinions.
If I were to carry a gun it would take too much of my time to be properly trained... something that most gun owners aren't. A cop is properly trained....
because a seatbelt is a safety device like a fire extinguisher, not a gun. Unless you are a gun nut, then you think a gun is a safety device. in the GZ situation, the safety device was his head or maturity... didn't use it.
Fair reply... I should not have used never. However, having a gun, an effective killing machine, gives its user a sense of power. Disagree?
Naw, just tired of all the killing and the gun owners not accepting it... IOW, "that gun owner that left his gun around for his five year old is different from me.." I am a good gun owner.... gets old...
of course becuase it doesn't fit your conditioning and believes... people who like GZ not guilty are like GZ in some ways and want the same not guilty verdict if they use a gun for 'defense'
why is that? you just got livid at the thought you were called a racist by screen name.
ask blacks if it is about race... if they say yes... have the decency to understand why they believe so....
Don't need one. Do you need grenades?
So you know for a fact that your life will never be in danger and you will never need to protect yourself or your family? You still haven't said if you would rather be beaten to death or defend yourself? Is a simple question so hard to ask?
So you know for a fact that your life will never be in danger and you will never need to protect yourself or your family? You still haven't said if you would rather be beaten to death or defend yourself? Is a simple question so hard to ask?
Logical fallacy....
No, it is not. You don't think someone really needs a gun, and he thinks no one really needs to wear a seatbelt. Why is that comparison so hard for you to comprehend?
No, it is not. You don't think someone really needs a gun, and he thinks no one really needs to wear a seatbelt. Why is that comparison so hard for you to comprehend?
GZ would never had gotten out of the car if he was unarmed... the gun empowered him..... a trained police officer would have handles it differently
Again, I didn't know you were a psychic and could read the mind of someone you don't even know. And do you have proof that a trained police officer would have handled it differently, or are you still using a lot of conjecture to win your argument instead of using facts?
Again, I didn't know you were a psychic and could read the mind of someone you don't even know. And do you have proof that a trained police officer would have handled it differently, or are you still using a lot of conjecture to win your argument instead of using facts?
I am questioning the gun attitudes in the country... something you don't because you readily accept guns as fundamental... have you ever considered to question it?
And you have a one track mine when it comes to anyone owning a gun and that's pathetic! It's no different than me saying all blacks are..., all whites are ..., all hispanics are..., all Asians are ..., etc. but you are the one with the open mind?
And you have a one track mine when it comes to anyone owning a gun and that's pathetic! It's no different than me saying all blacks are..., all whites are ..., all hispanics are..., all Asians are ..., etc. but you are the one with the open mind?
Just bringing up another point of view....
Which has nothing to do with this conversation. I like watermelon and fish sticks, just bringing up another point of view.
Which has nothing to do with this conversation. I like watermelon and fish sticks, just bringing up another point of view.
so if you got a gun and believe SYG is on your side... would you more likely engage in a conflict?
No, I would not.
No, I would not.
so SYG is for whites?
Again, you are the one bringing race into this discussion because you have nothing else to stand on. GZ is not white, and he never brought up the race of the woman in Florida who is going to jail. You are the one trying to force race into the discussion when neither one of us is nor has said a peep about race.
Guess your not open to other ideas....
Again, you are the one bringing race into this discussion because you have nothing else to stand on. GZ is not white, and he never brought up the race of the woman in Florida who is going to jail. You are the one trying to force race into the discussion when neither one of us is nor has said a peep about race.
Guess your not open to other ideas....
07-16-2013, 05:16 PM
#92
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
I guess you lack a basic understanding of the English language. We were having a discussion and you quoted me saying you and your, but I'm supposed to assume you weren't really talking about me, but GZ?
I will answer your question when you provide facts that GZ was a racist, when you tell me if you would rather be beaten to death or defend yourself, and when you stop bringing race into the discussion when no one else is. Can you do that, or are you only able to avoid questions, make stuff up, and change the narrative to fit your narrow minded views?
I will answer your question when you provide facts that GZ was a racist, when you tell me if you would rather be beaten to death or defend yourself, and when you stop bringing race into the discussion when no one else is. Can you do that, or are you only able to avoid questions, make stuff up, and change the narrative to fit your narrow minded views?
Also, do you own a gun? CCW?
07-16-2013, 05:20 PM
#93
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
In Texas, .19% of all crimes are committed by those who have a concealed carry permit. These are what we human adults call facts, not faceless based emotions. Snare, why don't you provide me with facts that prove otherwise?
Here is a link for you review.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL...Report2011.pdf
Here is a link for you review.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL...Report2011.pdf
07-16-2013, 05:26 PM
#94
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Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
Would you rather be beaten to death or defend yourself? What facts do you have that GZ is or was a racist? Once you start answering some easy questions I will be more than happy to be an open book about myself.
07-16-2013, 05:28 PM
#95
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Being accused of logical fallacies by a person who repeatedly makes A or B fallacies, Generalization fallacies, straw arguments, etc. That's rich.
And no, it isn't fallacious. I carry concealed for the same reason I wear a seat belt in a car or airplane. Because it provides me with an increased likely-hood of surviving a dangerous/lethal incident. It has nothing to do with stroking my own ego, or with compensating for something that I lack. You seem to be projecting your own inadequacies on others...a very common and fallacious tactic for people who mostly have emotional responses but never progress to logical responses. You argue from a standpoint of ignorance.
And no, it isn't fallacious. I carry concealed for the same reason I wear a seat belt in a car or airplane. Because it provides me with an increased likely-hood of surviving a dangerous/lethal incident. It has nothing to do with stroking my own ego, or with compensating for something that I lack. You seem to be projecting your own inadequacies on others...a very common and fallacious tactic for people who mostly have emotional responses but never progress to logical responses. You argue from a standpoint of ignorance.
A gun isn't a safety device... a seat belt is design to restrain in an accident. I gun is made to kill. See the difference?
Again, projecting onto other people what you possibly believe about yourself. And a very fallacious statement. You *know* that he would have NEVER done that? That is very impressive. At least you're debating from a standpoint of firsthand experience, facts, and evidence. Nope. You're not.
The only gun attitude I question in this country is that from people like you. I accept guns as merely an inanimate object that does nothing without its user. You have this belief that guns cause mental transformations in people. They don't. They don't cause people to do anything they wouldn't have already been willing to do. You're a hoplophobic person because you don't understand that what you are afraid of.
That's fine. But you're wrong.
Absolutely....NOT. I carry concealed every single day. I make an effort to maintain some degree of situational awareness and avoid dangerous situations that would cause harm to me or my loved ones. My gun is not an object to flaunt and win arguments with. It is purely and ONLY to save my life when unlawfully assaulted by someone who intends me grievous harm. Never once when I've been cutoff in traffic, been spoken to rudely, or otherwise disrespected have I EVER even had the thought of using my firearm in any capacity to right the wrong. You know why? It is because I, and tens of millions of other Americans just like me, from all walks of life, trust ourselves. I would already be doing the right thing, with or without a gun.
You on the other hand give so many signals to show that you believe that because you couldn't trust yourself with a gun, that that clearly means everyone else is just like you, and therefore they can't be trusted with a gun either. You couldn't be more wrong about that. However, based on this conversation, you probably should stay away from firearms. You remind of this woman: My Month With a Gun: Week One
She is TERRIFIED of the gun...her adrenaline is SURGING while it is strapped to her hip as she sits at Starbucks. Why? Because she is ignorant and afraid. Just like you seem to be.
She is TERRIFIED of the gun...her adrenaline is SURGING while it is strapped to her hip as she sits at Starbucks. Why? Because she is ignorant and afraid. Just like you seem to be.
Oh boy. Well, I mean, I'm not going to do all of your homework for you, but suffice it to say, that just like this topic right now, you also don't know what you're talking about in that case either.
I'm open to ideas that aren't riddled with misinformation, irrational fears, and contain some sense of coherent logic based thought. You've presented none of this.
So the question I want to know is... why you feel compelled to carry everyday... whereas many others, don't own at all, and they live normal worry free lives. Why is it so important to you, yet irrelevant to many if not most others.....?
07-16-2013, 05:34 PM
#96
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
The racism issue is nothing more than a sideshow distraction.
Nobody knows why GZ thought TM was acting suspiciously.
The point here is that prior to physically attacking GZ, TM had done absolutely nothing wrong. Last time I checked looking suspicious wasn't a crime.
That being said once TM attempted to inflict deadly harm upon GZ he crossed the line from self-defense, on his behalf, and took it to point of criminal intent.
Unfortunately, I think both individuals acted foolishly.
GZ should have exercised better discretion before exiting his vehicle.
TM should have contacted the police or a family member and evaded GZ.
Anyone who thinks this is an open-shut case is not giving the entire incident it's due justice. I think the blurry line of who was right and wrong in this case is the reason many tensions are flaring over it.
GZ account of what happened seems to be 100% accurate, but it still unsettling to see the events unfold the way they did.
Nobody knows why GZ thought TM was acting suspiciously.
The point here is that prior to physically attacking GZ, TM had done absolutely nothing wrong. Last time I checked looking suspicious wasn't a crime.
That being said once TM attempted to inflict deadly harm upon GZ he crossed the line from self-defense, on his behalf, and took it to point of criminal intent.
Unfortunately, I think both individuals acted foolishly.
GZ should have exercised better discretion before exiting his vehicle.
TM should have contacted the police or a family member and evaded GZ.
Anyone who thinks this is an open-shut case is not giving the entire incident it's due justice. I think the blurry line of who was right and wrong in this case is the reason many tensions are flaring over it.
GZ account of what happened seems to be 100% accurate, but it still unsettling to see the events unfold the way they did.
07-16-2013, 05:41 PM
#97
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
The racism issue is nothing more than a sideshow distraction.
Nobody knows why GZ thought TM was acting suspiciously.
The point here is that prior to physically attacking GZ, TM had done absolutely nothing wrong. Last time I checked looking suspicious wasn't a crime.
That being said once TM attempted to inflict deadly harm upon GZ he crossed the line from self-defense, on his behalf, and took it to point of criminal intent.
Unfortunately, I think both individuals acted foolishly.
GZ should have exercised better discretion before exiting his vehicle.
TM should have contacted the police or a family member and evaded GZ.
Anyone who thinks this is an open-shut case is not giving the entire incident it's due justice. I think the blurry line of who was right and wrong in this case is the reason many tensions are flaring over it.
GZ account of what happened seems to be 100% accurate, but it still unsettling to see the events unfold the way they did.
Nobody knows why GZ thought TM was acting suspiciously.
The point here is that prior to physically attacking GZ, TM had done absolutely nothing wrong. Last time I checked looking suspicious wasn't a crime.
That being said once TM attempted to inflict deadly harm upon GZ he crossed the line from self-defense, on his behalf, and took it to point of criminal intent.
Unfortunately, I think both individuals acted foolishly.
GZ should have exercised better discretion before exiting his vehicle.
TM should have contacted the police or a family member and evaded GZ.
Anyone who thinks this is an open-shut case is not giving the entire incident it's due justice. I think the blurry line of who was right and wrong in this case is the reason many tensions are flaring over it.
GZ account of what happened seems to be 100% accurate, but it still unsettling to see the events unfold the way they did.
07-16-2013, 05:44 PM
#98
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
I'm not answering for AZ, but wanted to put forth my opinions.
If I were to carry a gun it would take too much of my time to be properly trained... something that most gun owners aren't. A cop is properly trained....
A lot of cops couldn't hit the ocean if the were standing at the bottom of it. Show me your facts and stastistics that most gun owners aren't properly trained?
because a seatbelt is a safety device like a fire extinguisher, not a gun. Unless you are a gun nut, then you think a gun is a safety device. in the GZ situation, the safety device was his head or maturity... didn't use it.
A safety belt can save my life if i am involved in a horrific car accident, just like a gun can save my life if someone tries to take mine in an assault or robbery
Fair reply... I should not have used never. However, having a gun, an effective killing machine, gives its user a sense of power. Disagree?
Yes, I absolutely disagree. But I guess you already knew that since you have the ability to read everyone's mind.
Naw, just tired of all the killing and the gun owners not accepting it... IOW, "that gun owner that left his gun around for his five year old is different from me.." I am a good gun owner.... gets old...
So there is no such thing as a responsible gun owner in your narrow minded view?
of course becuase it doesn't fit your conditioning and believes... people who like GZ not guilty are like GZ in some ways and want the same not guilty verdict if they use a gun for 'defense'
I'm not out for any particular verdict like you seem to be. I want myself or anyone else to be judged by a jury of their peers, which is what happened in this case. Just because you don't like the verdict doesn't mean that justice wasn't served.
why is that? you just got livid at the thought you were called a racist by screen name.
You called me a racist without cause, what do you expect? I'm guessing if I accused you of something that you weren't you would just be ok with it?
ask blacks if it is about race... if they say yes... have the decency to understand why they believe so....
If I were to carry a gun it would take too much of my time to be properly trained... something that most gun owners aren't. A cop is properly trained....
A lot of cops couldn't hit the ocean if the were standing at the bottom of it. Show me your facts and stastistics that most gun owners aren't properly trained?
because a seatbelt is a safety device like a fire extinguisher, not a gun. Unless you are a gun nut, then you think a gun is a safety device. in the GZ situation, the safety device was his head or maturity... didn't use it.
A safety belt can save my life if i am involved in a horrific car accident, just like a gun can save my life if someone tries to take mine in an assault or robbery
Fair reply... I should not have used never. However, having a gun, an effective killing machine, gives its user a sense of power. Disagree?
Yes, I absolutely disagree. But I guess you already knew that since you have the ability to read everyone's mind.
Naw, just tired of all the killing and the gun owners not accepting it... IOW, "that gun owner that left his gun around for his five year old is different from me.." I am a good gun owner.... gets old...
So there is no such thing as a responsible gun owner in your narrow minded view?
of course becuase it doesn't fit your conditioning and believes... people who like GZ not guilty are like GZ in some ways and want the same not guilty verdict if they use a gun for 'defense'
I'm not out for any particular verdict like you seem to be. I want myself or anyone else to be judged by a jury of their peers, which is what happened in this case. Just because you don't like the verdict doesn't mean that justice wasn't served.
why is that? you just got livid at the thought you were called a racist by screen name.
You called me a racist without cause, what do you expect? I'm guessing if I accused you of something that you weren't you would just be ok with it?
ask blacks if it is about race... if they say yes... have the decency to understand why they believe so....
Last edited by Red Forman; 07-16-2013 at 05:56 PM.
07-16-2013, 05:49 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
[QUOTE=Red Forman;1446242]
Why don't we ask Hispanics what they think, since that's what GZ was. Again, please provide facts that race was involved in this case. I have asked you several times now and all I have gotten is silence. That's pathetic and so far you haven't provided any facts to support your argument, only misguided and emotionally charged dribble.
you need to learn how to quote.... I am not doing it for you again...
I didn't see your reply to my question if you are a gun owner and CCW... would you reply?
Why don't we ask Hispanics what they think, since that's what GZ was. Again, please provide facts that race was involved in this case. I have asked you several times now and all I have gotten is silence. That's pathetic and so far you haven't provided any facts to support your argument, only misguided and emotionally charged dribble.
I didn't see your reply to my question if you are a gun owner and CCW... would you reply?
07-16-2013, 05:54 PM
#100
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
As I have said about five times now, I will be an open book and answer all of your questions when you tell me if you would rather be beaten to death or defend yourself? And for you to provide facts to prove that GZ was indeed a racist?
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