Lets talk Pilot Shortage!
05-24-2013, 01:31 PM
#71
Seat 0B
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 793
JetDoc - I wish you good luck, you are walking a path that thousands of guys have walked previously. That said, the 250 hour FO in the right seat of an RJ - based upon a lot of conversation with CA's and others intimately involved... In many if not most cases, they were viewed almost as a liability rather than an asset to the captain. "It'd be easier to do this solo" was a common comment.
I think you all misunderstand what I meant. I never said that 250 hrs and a commercial was a good idea. All I said was that was all the FAA required. That being said, the airlines were free to set the mins at their choosing as demand ebbed and flowed. Now their hands are tied. Good pilots are being turned away.. FWIW, when I was working on my instrument in 2007 I went through three different CFII's as they were being continuously hired away by regionals. Not one of them had more than 600 hrs TT. All of them still work for their respective carriers....
05-24-2013, 01:36 PM
#72
Seat 0B
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 793
Hi JetDoc,
I agree with you on some of your points, however blaming the Colgan crew is pointless because most airline accidents are a result of pilot error. The Colgan accident was not the first airline accident whereas the crew put in the wrong control input or had not been exposed to icing conditions.
I agree with you on some of your points, however blaming the Colgan crew is pointless because most airline accidents are a result of pilot error. The Colgan accident was not the first airline accident whereas the crew put in the wrong control input or had not been exposed to icing conditions.
05-24-2013, 06:13 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
Again, you are missing the point of the law. Just because the pilots had more than 1500 hours at the time of the accident does not mean the law would not have made a difference. Quite the contrary, more than likely this accident would not have happened if the CA had instructor experience and more time before being hired. If you go dig up some old threads on this discussion you will see why.
05-24-2013, 06:17 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
And if you have time, you can get the facts on the flying history of the crew here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2010/aar1001.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2010/aar1001.pdf
05-24-2013, 06:20 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Again, you are missing the point of the law. Just because the pilots had more than 1500 hours at the time of the accident does not mean the law would not have made a difference. Quite the contrary, more than likely this accident would not have happened if the CA had instructor experience and more time before being hired. If you go dig up some old threads on this discussion you will see why.
05-24-2013, 08:24 PM
#76
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
I do have a second job. I don't even know what that comment was supposed to mean. No viable PT 135 jobs where I live. You actually think I didn't think of that? And you never answered my question. What were the FAA minimums to be a SIC at an airline when you were hired? Well I'll answer it for you. It was 250 hrs and a wet commercial and the system worked just fine. Quite frankly I really don't think anybody cares what you think the minimums should be. The two dunder heads who messed it up for everyone had over 2500 hrs a piece. How would have the 1500 rule helped that. In fact, this whole ATP BS has done absolutely nothing to improve safety and has raised the price of admission to your little club so astronomically high that people who ordinarily would have been great pilots will now choose to go do something else.
Empathy, crack a dictionary and look it up....
Empathy, crack a dictionary and look it up....
As far as second jobs goes, I was simply relating the plethora of self pitying complaints the CFIs had...for example, they didn't make enough money. Our flight school load alone may not support the income needs of a person-which we never made any bones about. So get another job! You say there are no 135 jobs nearby? Move. If not, that's no body else's problem. I didn't have the $$$ to pay for schools and flying out of high school. No body's problem but mine.
Good gravy, figure out your own path, just like everyone else has to.
05-24-2013, 08:51 PM
#77
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
I want to add I don't blame people for getting hired when they can (I.e., low time guys). However, a better way forward in terms of risk management should include increased real world experience and a well planned and executed training curriculum.
05-24-2013, 09:26 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
That's what I've seen in myself and the students I've taught. There is a time component in the learning and maturation process. Building blocks, they're not just for regurgitation on the FOI test.
I want to add I don't blame people for getting hired when they can (I.e., low time guys). However, a better way forward in terms of risk management should include increased real world experience and a well planned and executed training curriculum.
I want to add I don't blame people for getting hired when they can (I.e., low time guys). However, a better way forward in terms of risk management should include increased real world experience and a well planned and executed training curriculum.
05-24-2013, 09:51 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 119
It used to be the standard to get hired you needed 2,000 hours, AT A TURBOPROP REGIONAL. We keep forgetting that the 250 hour new-hires, were not the norm. I have no issue with raising the mins to ATP standards. It reduces the competitive pool, and those in the pool are a higher skill set.
Empathy goes both ways. We've fought for years to raise the bar at the regional level. Around every corner a new company and new management beat us down. There were too many other pilots to compete against. This new law has effectively saved us tons of negotiating capital. I won't lose any sleep knowing it just got harder for a person to become an airline pilot.
Empathy goes both ways. We've fought for years to raise the bar at the regional level. Around every corner a new company and new management beat us down. There were too many other pilots to compete against. This new law has effectively saved us tons of negotiating capital. I won't lose any sleep knowing it just got harder for a person to become an airline pilot.
05-25-2013, 08:12 AM
#80
Mishap Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 72
Gasp? I'm a widebody international FO, and put in 40+ at my real job this week, I've never been without a side job. Think you're going to get hired at the majors and magically have the coin for your kids to start college a few years later, even many years later? It takes a lot to recover from living in poverty until middle age. And none of us have a secure job, none of us.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
