Words fail me.

She was a 135 charter!

I've heard. It's just one more reason not to kiss a dude with a beard! :)

What in the HELL?! NO grooming standards! I'd demand a refund if i paid for a pilot who looked like that!

Those two are goin places. Not Delta, but places.

I didn't think a whole Company could be TOTD. Looks like I was wrong.

In spades...

I want to know who they are advertising to? Certainly not to people who can afford a private jet.

Are we sure that wasn't just an elaborate plan for those guys to get laid?

You're just now realizing this?

But I could make an exception for shell-shocked 'nam vets.

Wow...Captain with a man-top-bun....awesome.

Master plan uncovered. You win!

He-Hive? Maybe ;)

Gonna nominate myself for the absolutely terrible ILS I flew today.

We were close behind a Super in our little RJ, in IMC, so I clicked off the AP so I could stay a dot high on GS, then clicked off the FD because its 'fly down' commands were getting distracting. Ended up off centerline and high. I made it work, and we were never outside our SOP tolerances, and we landed in the TDZ, but it was one of those days where you just feel like you've forgotten how to fly. Oh well. Hopefully tomorrow will be better...

When you say you weren't outside sop. That means you probably were.

You need to check out the FAA video on how wingtip vortices work. Unless you had a tailwind, there's no need for you to ever fly an ILS "a dot high". Doing that only puts your vortices in the next guy's glide path.

He was in a RJ following a Super. Good catch in case a C-172 was next on approach.

I'll go for the 1/2-1 dot high in that case too depending on ceiling height. I see your point if the Super's are never a dot high and tailwinds are never present on approach.

Tailwinds, sure. But a Super is probably flying a coupled approach.

I've encountered significant wake turbulence on glideslope with no tailwind and I'm sure hundreds others on this forum have, too.

Sometimes the vortices behave like the textbook ones, sometimes they don't. Sometimes local effects like a thermal could hold them up in place right in the glideslope with no tailwind at all.

If you feel wake starting, be a pilot and come up 1/4 or a half dot on the G/S.

Tool-of-the-day would be the one who drones along through the wake waiting for the really good jolt of it down low around 100-200', the kind that can push an RJ or even E170 size jet laterally right off the runway course.

I even had to go around last year in a 717 following an A330. At 200' we hit wake that quickly pushed us to the side and got us in an uncorrectable spot. Nothing could be done but go-around.

Understanding the different sciences:
Chemistry = smells bad
Biology = tastes bad
Physics= experiment didn't work right

They should provide wake separation in IMC. In my experience visuals are where you need to fly high.

Right, at 200' where the vortices didn't have the vertical distance to descend. That's where you're going to have your problem, not on 10 mile final.

And it doesn't take a heavy to roll your airliner up. I got rolled in a DC-9 by the wake of an H-53. Your 737 could easily roll an RJ.

You're right, theoretically if all aircraft are on the electronic G/S, and there's proper spacing, the vortices will sink out of the following aircraft's way. Theoretically only a significant tailwind should create cause for concern.

That's theory. Then there's the reality of one's own experience, which I suppose affects how we all fly. A few years back I had a rather unforgettable first-hand experience in which I was rolled fully inverted at 1000' AGL on final behind an A300. Fortunately I'd had upset training, so I'm here to talk about it. Unloaded the wing with a very firm push and kept 'er rolling all the way around -- the roll was too abrupt to follow the natural instinct, which is of course to stop the roll and reverse it.

The spacing on final was fine, but it happened anyways. And I've hit enough vortices at 100' AGL while following a heavy that I'm acutely aware of the danger they present. Haven't we all?

So, yeah, maybe I'm a bit paranoid. But this morning, I could actually see the darn vortices coming off the preceding traffic, as they created rather beautiful patterns in the cloud tops. I'm guessing the preceding aircraft was right on G/S, but all I knew was, I wasn't going to fly through those swirling mists. Once in IMC, I couldn't very well avoid the vortices visually anymore.

Anyhow, what I shouldhave done was kept the A/P engaged and used V/S mode to control the descent rate (instead of coupling to the G/S for descent.). That would have kept us slightly above the G/S while taking care of the lateral track automatically.

You are, of course, absolutely correct that if we all flew the G/S a dot high, we'd create wake issues for other aircraft behind us. That's a very good point.

Well I don't have the FDR to prove it to myself, but the speed was always in the bug below 1000' AGL (although the trend vector got way too large for my taste at times), and we were never more than a dot off laterally or vertically. But it was just one of those approaches where I was working way too hard for no reason. It just felt like lousy airmanship. Don't you ever have days like that?

"Probably"?

You just shot down your entire argument. A better statement for yourself would have been, "I would assume the Super is flying a coupled approach"

No, I only fly tier 1 approaches 🙄

A transport category aircraft you were flying rolled fully inverted behind an A300 at 1,000 AGL?

^^^^^I call bullsh!t on this too. And upset recovery is to roll in the shortest direction to wings level!

If you are 1/8 through an 8 point roll just bring it around and don't be scared. You sound like a weak pilot.

Things you did at Delta Virtual Airlines dont count. You realize that wasn't real life right?

Where did I say it was a transport category aircraft?

It was a Meridian, for crying out loud.

No, that's not how I was taught in the 3 days I spent in a Pitts. If the roll is strong enough, push and roll in the direction of the induced roll.

Not what your mom said!

And that's my point. Even on the 320, quite a few think this thing will roll inverted and smash into the ground behind a 767 and want to fly high. If you want to fly a half dot high, that's your prerogative. A large category aircraft like the 320 family has enough mass, inertia, wingspan, and aileron authority that it will not violently roll over and cause you to lose control.

This was actually one of the factors cited in the AA 587 crash. The NTSB came down harshly on the AAMP training curriculum, in which one scenario in the sim flying behind a 747, and they would roll the MD80/A300 a full 90 degrees due to wake and then have the pilot recover. It was all BS, and grossly exaggerated the expectancy of a wake disturbance on a large, transport category aircraft. No doubt this was in the back of the mind of the AA 587 FO as he violently overcontrolled the aircraft. No large transport category aircraft has flipped over and crashed behind a 757/767 or other heavy aircraft while on approach from 500ft-3000+ft AGL.

The one exception was the Delta DC9-10 (almost RJ type) in the traffic pattern with a DC10 also doing touch n goes in Texas, and they caught the wake below a 100 feet, corrected in one direction, overcorrected in another direction, and with not enough altitude they rolled upside on the runway and crashed. But this was on short final, in a non-normal operation of a heavy doing touch n goes.

It's just an eye rolling moment when some think a large transport category aircraft like an Airbus will behave like a small business jet for wake and lose control and crash :rolleyes:

If you took her pegging you, than you are tougher than I thought. You are still a lousy acrobatic pilot.

Cheers!

Shy,

Apples vs. oranges. We're talking about ILS approaches. AA 587 was a departure issue where the descending wake vortices ARE an issue. Your other example is low level where the vortices have no ability to descend.

Fly your ILS however you want, just be aware if you do it above the glideslope you're setting the guy behind you up for a "bumpy ride" at a minimum.

Enough said.

First off, I appreciate the ride to work this morning.... but the SWA captain that made all of his announcements in a pirate voice starting at 0530 this morning and the flight attendant who followed the whole flight. It got old after the first sentence at the gate and was completely obnoxious by initial descent. Seriously, a whole safety demo in a lame pirate voice... Really? I thought talk like a pirate day was a kid's thing.

It's national pirate day...duh everyone knows that.

We used to do it all the time at SKW...in the sim.

I seriously doubt it happened in the real world at SKW, I would have heard about it.

The way you quoted me with the rolleyes is out of context from what I wrote. Not sure if that was a formatting error on your part or on purpose. I certainly didn't put a rolleyes right after the DC9 crashing below 100 feet.

AA 587 had descending vortices at almost 250 knots from the 747. At worse, it was a light roll rate of the A300 (a widebody!) that would have been a complete non-event if it wasn't for the immediate and severe over-controlling reaction by the PF.