N2264J

And no interceptions were made? From the time Boston Center realized something was wrong and called NORAD, until the last jet crashed was about an hour and a quarter.

You're making my point.

Grumble

We weren't in a war time posture, and the threat wasn't from within. Everything was looking out, hence we would've had hours of lead time. What happened that day had never been postulated, so the point you make is moot. There were also thousands of a/c in the air over the east coast at the time, and oh by the way most fighters can't just light the blowers and rip supersonic across half the country. You've got about 200 miles or so and you're out of gas. Response times that day werern't required to be minutes. You know what it takes to man a 5-7 minute alert? Sitting in the jet, with external power on it, ready to just start the engines and go. It only goes up from there. You obviously know nothing about the job.

As far as g'ma in her cub... she was a radar blip in a TFR with no xpdr code and no radio. *** did you think they were going to do? As near as I can tell she violated at least 3 FAR's, and her attitude towards the ordeal seems to be way to non-chalant. If she wants to continue to fly, she gets to play by the same rules as everyone else. I don't find her ordeal "cute." She blatently admits no not following the rules. Imagine a 35 year old male making this same arguement, he's be hung from the highest tree.

LowSlowT2

I agree - rules are rules. I also believe there has to be judgment in the system to be able to evaluate on a case-by-case basis what happens in the end.

Intent is everything.

Bureaucracies, however, are horrible at exercising discretion...

USMCFLYR

Maybe G-Ma and the Senator from OK who can't be bothered to read NOTAMS ought to get together and have a beer summit
They can be LowSlow - but who gets to make that call when one person gets discretion and gets off with nothing and the other gets a license revoked for the same offense? What do you think would have happened to YOUR ticket had you landed on a closed runway, OVER people and equipment, on a properly marked CLOSED runway. Aren't a little preturbed by the 'discretion' shown the Senator that wouldn't have even been considered in your case? I'm not saying that she ought to be tarred and feathered, but she ought not be taking her mistake so lightly either in my opinion.

As for 64J - I'm thinking we may have another Timmay on our hands
'I'm supersonic, I'll be there in 30 seconds!'
Jeez.

USMCFLYR

LowSlowT2

Agreed. And this is one of those instances where I don't have a good solution. Intent is everything...and effect. And while I'd like to see discretion, I'm not sure who should get to decide. But it doesn't have to be fair - life isn't - I'd be happy if granny got off with a slap on the wrist - she didn't hurt anyone. I'm not happy the senator did - he doesn't have the innocent circumstances excuse and he nearly killed people.

...and yes, I know what would've happened to me in either case.

I'm not a big fan of the TFR system...and the punishments don't always fit the crime. The challenge with closing airspace on short notice as we do (and I agree that not all of it is short notice and some of it is common sense) is, unlike a road, you can't just put up a flashing yellow lighted barricade, post an off-duty cop, and tell people, "Sorry, the road's closed". And until we all have a magic screen that plots TFR in real time, there will be these types of issues.

So are we punishing to scare future transgressors or punishing because we can?

Grumble

That actually does exsist. The avionics in my airplane will display it real time via XMWX, tons of handheld GPS's will do the same. (Amazing what $1500 can buy a civilian pilot, but the military can't get past 1980). If you've got the bucks, Garmin 696 will open a whole new world of real time information in the cockpit.

Of course a 5 minute call to 1800WXBRIEF or google will yield the same results if you happen to have a "cute little cub" with no electrical system. But then again, she couldn't be bothered with such things.

Airhoss

Guys she's been flying the area for years! Now really how many of you have ever owned a small airplane and had it parked in your back yard? I have in the past and I am guilty of having pulled it out of the hanger fired it up and taken it for a local spin on a nice day without checking one single solitary TFR or the weather or anything else.

It's a very easy mistake to make. Once again it's all about intent.

As far as the 9-11 comments and scramble time..Come on people!! It was different world that morning. Things have changed, we got suckered punched big time that morning.

USMCFLYR

If I were operating anywhere around a major metropolitan area - I'd look.
If this is when you were operating in the outback...I might let the NOTAM slide - but I'd still take my hit for not checking if I happen to stumble across the President's fishing hole accidentally.

USMCFLYR

bcrosier

I'd tell the dipstick to get back to Washington and get busy fixing the screwed up country, and stay the heck out of MY fishing hole (after all, I pay the dork's salary).

*** Note this is not a political commentary exclusively on the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue - I apply the critique equally along the past several administrations. None of them needed to be out tying up MY airspace!

DustyRoads

In the big scheme of things, the notam system doesn't work. People do not read the stuff. It seems like every time there is a temporary prohibited area, someone flies into it. The problem is that the notam list reads like a scroll. So maybe put the most important notam first and progressively down the list to the least important. Whatever the FAA can do to make it more effective.