Conversion to Hobby Flying
04-16-2011, 06:35 AM
#21
Self Employed.
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Mmo
Sorry about that. It was late and I made a quick reply.
Marvel Mystery Oil is a product that some like to use in their oil and fuel because they believe that it has some preservative properties. However it is illegal to use in aircraft.
It is a common point of argument among airport bums around here. Some use it while others argue against it. Personally I do not have a position on it at all.
Skyhigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 04-16-2011 at 06:50 AM.
04-16-2011, 09:10 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
SH,
I have to agree with the premise of your post. The GA war story "old timer" crowd can be a bit tough to deal with.
Here's a quick war story of my own. I do tail wheel endorsements, a little aerobatic training, the occasional BFR/instrument comp check and every once in a while I'll do a multi-engine rating for a guy.
So I get this guy who is going to buy a C-185, I take him out in my C-180 for a check out. He is your typical over confident, overly wealthy 300 hour PP he can fly OK but has all the answers not nearly enough experience to be doing some of the things that he is wanting to do.
He does alright in the 180 but is rough around the edges and has a smart a$$ answer for everything. After 10 hours I sign him off for his tail wheel endorsement ( most guys take half that time but I was being overly cautious with this one.) So the guy goes and picks up his souped up IO 550 powered 185 and I fly with him for about 3 more hours in it and tell him to take it easy as he is wanting to do a bunch of off field stuff and push weather ETC he's got a bad case of bush pilot wanna be syndrome.
Two weeks later he runs his 185 out of gas on downwind and stalls and crashes turning base to final. He survives but his friend gets a broken back out of the deal. The details of the crash are built on ignorance and false confidence. Witnesses say that he visually checked the fuel tanks because the gauges were both reading EMPTY he looks in the tanks and makes the comment "nothing but rubber." Then decides not to buy fuel at that field because it's $.20 cheaper at another airport 20 miles away. He takes off and according to witnesses makes four low passes at the departure field and then heads for the other airport. Once he gets to pattern of the arrival airport he runs out of gas and sub sequentially crashes trying to extend his glide to the runway passing up multiple open fields in the airport area.
Several months later the same guy calls me to ask me if I'll check him out in his new T-6 he bought with the insurance money. I've got a good amount of time teaching in a T-6 and have checked out multiple new pilots in them but decline and tell him why I will not train him anymore. He finds somebody else to train him and a year later I read about him killing himself while doing low level aerobatics in his new T-6.
Stuff like that is why I have pretty much quit doing GA instruction for anybody but very trusted friends and family and have sworn off the warbird crowd entirely. The guys who can afford warbirds nowadays are generally over wealthy, cocky and under experienced.
I have to agree with the premise of your post. The GA war story "old timer" crowd can be a bit tough to deal with.
Here's a quick war story of my own. I do tail wheel endorsements, a little aerobatic training, the occasional BFR/instrument comp check and every once in a while I'll do a multi-engine rating for a guy.
So I get this guy who is going to buy a C-185, I take him out in my C-180 for a check out. He is your typical over confident, overly wealthy 300 hour PP he can fly OK but has all the answers not nearly enough experience to be doing some of the things that he is wanting to do.
He does alright in the 180 but is rough around the edges and has a smart a$$ answer for everything. After 10 hours I sign him off for his tail wheel endorsement ( most guys take half that time but I was being overly cautious with this one.) So the guy goes and picks up his souped up IO 550 powered 185 and I fly with him for about 3 more hours in it and tell him to take it easy as he is wanting to do a bunch of off field stuff and push weather ETC he's got a bad case of bush pilot wanna be syndrome.
Two weeks later he runs his 185 out of gas on downwind and stalls and crashes turning base to final. He survives but his friend gets a broken back out of the deal. The details of the crash are built on ignorance and false confidence. Witnesses say that he visually checked the fuel tanks because the gauges were both reading EMPTY he looks in the tanks and makes the comment "nothing but rubber." Then decides not to buy fuel at that field because it's $.20 cheaper at another airport 20 miles away. He takes off and according to witnesses makes four low passes at the departure field and then heads for the other airport. Once he gets to pattern of the arrival airport he runs out of gas and sub sequentially crashes trying to extend his glide to the runway passing up multiple open fields in the airport area.
Several months later the same guy calls me to ask me if I'll check him out in his new T-6 he bought with the insurance money. I've got a good amount of time teaching in a T-6 and have checked out multiple new pilots in them but decline and tell him why I will not train him anymore. He finds somebody else to train him and a year later I read about him killing himself while doing low level aerobatics in his new T-6.
Stuff like that is why I have pretty much quit doing GA instruction for anybody but very trusted friends and family and have sworn off the warbird crowd entirely. The guys who can afford warbirds nowadays are generally over wealthy, cocky and under experienced.
Last edited by Airhoss; 04-16-2011 at 09:23 AM.
04-16-2011, 09:38 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
When you are dealing with the hobby pilot crowd as a CFI you have to take on a bit different persona than when doing professional pilot, job on the line type instruction. Sky High is correct in not completing a BFR for a now it all pilot. You can't let those type of pilots push you around and a little ego deflation is in order. A "busted" (I know you can't "bust" a BFR) but them not completing one and then having a nice long debrief as to why is often just the humble pie those types need.
I've seen where those type guys will huff and puff and scream and holler only to return hat in hand several days later with swallowed pride ready to learn. The whole "know it all cocky act" is a defense mechanism covering for an insecurity or some type of deficiency in skills or personality. And if they don't return, oh well they are no longer your problem.
I've seen where those type guys will huff and puff and scream and holler only to return hat in hand several days later with swallowed pride ready to learn. The whole "know it all cocky act" is a defense mechanism covering for an insecurity or some type of deficiency in skills or personality. And if they don't return, oh well they are no longer your problem.
Last edited by Airhoss; 04-16-2011 at 11:28 AM.
04-16-2011, 09:41 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 443
Sky, if I were you I'd try and start a 1 or 2 plane flying club with your 150 and maybe another airplane like a 172 or Cherokee 140. That big school on the field doesn't let students rent planes to take friends up in. Many guys are checked out at the FBOs 40 miles south and drive down there to fly friends around.
Anyone arguing Sky's points about traffic patterns better take a look at 91.126 (b) and 91.127 (b). Those are FARs and are madatory.
Sky, that University has a furloughed 121 pilot, an Alaska bush pilot, an Idaho bush pilot and a retired 121 pilot. Three of which are part of that EAA chapter. I think there is some good experience there.
Anyone arguing Sky's points about traffic patterns better take a look at 91.126 (b) and 91.127 (b). Those are FARs and are madatory.
Sky, that University has a furloughed 121 pilot, an Alaska bush pilot, an Idaho bush pilot and a retired 121 pilot. Three of which are part of that EAA chapter. I think there is some good experience there.
04-16-2011, 09:56 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
Sky, if I were you I'd try and start a 1 or 2 plane flying club with your 150 and maybe another airplane like a 172 or Cherokee 140. That big school on the field doesn't let students rent planes to take friends up in. Many guys are checked out at the FBOs 40 miles south and drive down there to fly friends around.
Anyone arguing Sky's points about traffic patterns better take a look at 91.126 (b) and 91.127 (b). Those are FARs and are madatory.
Sky, that University has a furloughed 121 pilot, an Alaska bush pilot, an Idaho bush pilot and a retired 121 pilot. Three of which are part of that EAA chapter. I think there is some good experience there.
Anyone arguing Sky's points about traffic patterns better take a look at 91.126 (b) and 91.127 (b). Those are FARs and are madatory.
Sky, that University has a furloughed 121 pilot, an Alaska bush pilot, an Idaho bush pilot and a retired 121 pilot. Three of which are part of that EAA chapter. I think there is some good experience there.
Entering a pattern is regulated.
What university are we talking about?
PS
SkyHigh,
It's ERAU not ERU.. My god get it right or you could cause thousands of dollars in leather jacket damage. All of those poor little ERAU students crying, think of the water damage those kids could do to their "Top Gun" jackets.
I have a non flying degree from ERAU I got my degree there after I had all my ratings a bit later in life than most kids after I'd flown professionally for some years.
I went to Prescott 1989/90. Top gun style jackets and crotch rockets were all the rage at that time. Hilarious seeing a kid who hasn't even soloed yet wearing a leather campaign jacket with Tomcat patches and all!!
(Anytime baby!!) YGTBFSM!!
04-16-2011, 10:21 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,896
Now I agree that there are plenty of "cowboys" out there doing what ever they want. But as long as you enter the pattern safely, from any way you wish, and it's clearly announced on CTAF, I don't see a problem. Where it does become a problem is when they do that crap and aren't talking on the radio. I once took off from the correct runway and at about 150 feet agl, I came nose to nose with a Citbria, both of us had to aggressively maneuver to miss each other. Luckily, I was carrying a few extra knots that day. If I had been by myself I would have turned around and had words with this guy...this wasn't the first time he had done something like this. This guy was known for rolling his own and I agree that these dudes need "educated," but as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water... They usually end up like that student of Airhoss...I just hope they don't take anyone with them!
Airhoss, unfortunately there are too many of those guys out there. I now am the same, I only will instruct people I know and trust.
04-16-2011, 12:10 PM
#27
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Yea !!
When you are dealing with the hobby pilot crowd as a CFI you have to take on a bit different persona than when doing professional pilot, job on the line type instruction. Sky High is correct in not completing a BFR for a now it all pilot. You can't let those type of pilots push you around and a little ego deflation is in order. A "busted" (I know you can't "bust" a BFR) but them not completing one and then having a nice long debrief as to why is often just the humble pie those types need.
I've seen where those type guys will huff and puff and scream and holler only to return hat in hand several days later with swallowed pride ready to learn. The whole "know it all cocky act" is a defense mechanism covering for an insecurity or some type of deficiency in skills or personality. And if they don't return, oh well they are no longer your problem.
I've seen where those type guys will huff and puff and scream and holler only to return hat in hand several days later with swallowed pride ready to learn. The whole "know it all cocky act" is a defense mechanism covering for an insecurity or some type of deficiency in skills or personality. And if they don't return, oh well they are no longer your problem.
The hobby pilots are different. I don't really fit in with them. That is why I would rather be here taking abuse from you guys.
Skyhigh
04-17-2011, 06:44 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Damm over the hill at 45, just because I fly a 140.
Now all we need is someone to bring up the Marvel Mystery Oil and look out ..
04-22-2011, 05:06 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Lovin' life at .4 (ish) mach
Posts: 1,317
A great line from the great movie "Heart Break Ridge", "Don't give the guys the satisfaction". I have to say this sometimes to myself when I have conflicts with other aviators (especially the weekend warriors) and feel like walking away from aviation. The point is, you shouldn't let other people ruin what you enjoy (or did enjoy) because of their behavior and attitudes.
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