BoilerUP

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...

What nationalities are the majority of expats, in your experience?

Glofliser

I didn't include any pilots coming out of the military in this argument because you are already qualified and trained to a standard that are beyond what I'm talking about below and I think you should be qualified to go to any airline, at any time, without anyone asking for experience. You have it -period!

I used to work for many years as the Chief Pilot for a European FTO (Flying Training Organization), training self sponsored, direct entry pilots for a couple of European airlines. We trained the pilot according to the JAA regulations (JAR), in the "ATP-Integrated" program. That program took the student from zero flight time to 230 hours with ATPL theory, an MCC course and a B737 type rating in 18 months.

This training is both good and bad. The good part; all students had the necessary school background and were screened by a phychologist, meaning they could absorb all information given to them so they were easy to train. The training program itself was planned in detail and very well monitored so weak students could be identified early.

Bad part; no one with 18 months experience and 230 hours has, in my opinion, anything to do behind the controls in any airline. As long as everything goes as planned I'm sure it works fine, but what happens that day when something goes wrong? You can't count on the pilot to go back and use his experience....because he has none.

This European, JAA, program was a result of the major european airlines (BA, Lufthansa and AF) getting together to have the same standard on all new pilots coming out and flying the line. Initially, these major airlines said they shouldn't hire anyone that had not completed the ATP-Integrated course. They wanted someone they could easily form to fit in the company. All of a sudden, all previous experience and modular courses were not good enough to get into these airlines. I lost contact with the "JAA world" a couple of years ago when I started to work for a US airline, so I don't know if this with the ATP-Integrated hiring requirement is still the case.

Furthermore, this training program is very costly, so we don't necessary get the best pilots to the airlines. What we get are those who can afford paying for the training.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we, on this side of the Atlantic, are going to see something similar to this down the road. The pilot shortage is here. Of course, major airlines will never have a problem finding qualified candidates, but there will be a lack of flight instructors and some low paying regionals will have a hard time getting enough pilots.

On top of that, the ATP requirement is coming into effect and I would think airlines will try to tie up some quality academies and ask FAA to waive the ATP requirements if a pilot has attended one of these selected and approved academies. Maybe, down the road with a pilot shortage some kind of sponsorship from the airlines' side will be possible. Time will tell.

The questions we should ask ourselves at that time are; Does the standard of the pilots coming through these academies match the standard and experience we get from the pilots working in the aviation field, gaining experience towards the ATP to be qualified to get a 121 job?
Do we really want what they have in Europe?

My experience from working with this is; absolutely not! There's a reason FAA mandated this ATP requirement for a 121 pilot, they wanted experience, so stick with it and with no exceptions.
At least it gives us somewhat experienced pilots behind the controls at the airlines and put this issue to rest - for good

Fly safe everyone

TonyWilliams

The most... Depends. Western Europe, and Scandinavia, then maybe US / Canada, then Australia.

HercDriver130

Pilot shortage pfft...

threeighteen

I thought congress is behind the ATP req for 121 ops?

Glofliser

Good point, and it could be Congress, I don't really know, but FAA is the final authority when it comes down to certificate issues and what's required to work in different operations. Whoever decided to go with the ATP requirement, needs to stick with the ATP requirement and there should be no exceptions. Period!

atpcliff

Actually, Congress is the final authority...they can tell the FAA to do whatever they want, and they did with the Flight/Duty/Rest rules, coming by 1 Aug, and the ATP, coming 1 Aug 2013.

I have come to realize that the Vikings took over the western world, including England.

Almost all of the expatriate pilots at EK are Vikings: The top 5 groups are Britain, Australia, Canada, US, New Zealand...all originally Vikings that changed Britain into the empire. They also started Russia, and their trade and technology is what created modern Europe.

cliff
AMS

atpcliff

In the 1960s, UAL recruited at and hired HS students with a PPL.

I think the Ab-Initio WILL come to the US. It is NOT expensive for the students, if the airline pays for it. Either we'll get electric motors in general aviation, or the airlines will be paying, as otherwise it will be too expensive for the vast numbers of new pilots we will need.

Ab-Initio may just have to train them through their ATP requirements.

The pilot-hiring/training landscape WILL be changing a lot, that's for sure!!!

cliff
AMS

rickair7777

Congress ordered the FAA to make certain changes, and gave them a time limit. They did it this way to allow the experts to try to make the rules, rather than blindly doing it via legislation.

But congress can and will legislate anything which the FAA does not regulate to their satisfaction.

FlyJSH

Flying has ALWAYS been expensive. What changed was the ability for a 20 year old kid to get 100k in loans to pay for it.



Electric GA airplanes? I think someone needs a peepee test.