Questions for pilots who fly into LAS.
06-28-2010, 03:54 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: EMB120 FO
Posts: 41
I fly the brasilia for skywest and fly psp las a couple time a week. There are a few questions I have for you.
why do you always need us to be at 10k 40mi south of las? (its bumpy and hot down there)
we almost always have to sit at the end of the runway for 20+ min to get released, when we dont fly a dp just a heading.
whats with the step climb, any chance of giving us a heading away from descending traffic so we can get out of the heat and bumps and be on our way.
thanks
why do you always need us to be at 10k 40mi south of las? (its bumpy and hot down there)
we almost always have to sit at the end of the runway for 20+ min to get released, when we dont fly a dp just a heading.
whats with the step climb, any chance of giving us a heading away from descending traffic so we can get out of the heat and bumps and be on our way.
thanks
Last edited by rsliman; 06-28-2010 at 06:39 PM.
06-28-2010, 06:27 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD80 Captain
Posts: 165
Chperplt,
First of all, thank you for your reply. The reason for the 160 heading off of Luxor instead of having you fly the GRNPA1 to 19L/R is because the Traffic Management Unit (TMU) wants us to fill up 25L before we start offloading to the 19's. The tower cannot use land and hold short (LAHSO) and a 19L/R arrival shuts off the 25R departures due to the runways intersecting. The TMU favors departures over arrivals here in LAS which creates a monkey**** in the approach control airspace. You should see this place during a runway change, it's total chaos. Also, most of the airliners prefer 25L because its a shorter taxi to the gate. When I work 125.6 I take as many LUXOR arrivals to the 19's as I can, because it creates less workload for myself and the final controller (135.0).
It's standard operating procedure for arrivals delivered to 135.0 to be at 8000/210kts. If there is no one in front of you they will tell you to speed up if you want. We try to stick to the SOP's as much as we can so all the controllers are on the same page, even if are sitting next to each other. It probably sounds silly and doesn't make a lot of sense from the cockpit but since ATC is unpredictable sticking to the SOP really helps in the event something goes wrong.
You haven't heard? It's standard operating procedure in all ATC facilities to make Southwest number one. No amount of pizza other bribes will ever change this. All the other airlines should just accept this and move on.
First of all, thank you for your reply. The reason for the 160 heading off of Luxor instead of having you fly the GRNPA1 to 19L/R is because the Traffic Management Unit (TMU) wants us to fill up 25L before we start offloading to the 19's. The tower cannot use land and hold short (LAHSO) and a 19L/R arrival shuts off the 25R departures due to the runways intersecting. The TMU favors departures over arrivals here in LAS which creates a monkey**** in the approach control airspace. You should see this place during a runway change, it's total chaos. Also, most of the airliners prefer 25L because its a shorter taxi to the gate. When I work 125.6 I take as many LUXOR arrivals to the 19's as I can, because it creates less workload for myself and the final controller (135.0).
It's standard operating procedure for arrivals delivered to 135.0 to be at 8000/210kts. If there is no one in front of you they will tell you to speed up if you want. We try to stick to the SOP's as much as we can so all the controllers are on the same page, even if are sitting next to each other. It probably sounds silly and doesn't make a lot of sense from the cockpit but since ATC is unpredictable sticking to the SOP really helps in the event something goes wrong.
You haven't heard? It's standard operating procedure in all ATC facilities to make Southwest number one. No amount of pizza other bribes will ever change this. All the other airlines should just accept this and move on.
The SW thing is funny... We called ready to taxi and was ignored three times this morning. The ground controller then asked who the 2 SW birds approaching spot 11 were and cleared them to taxi.... At this point it's just funny.
Again, you guys do a great job, especially with the constraints that you've been given.
06-28-2010, 07:59 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: PA-31/left, LJ31/right
Posts: 350
Like I said in "the other forum", we don't want to be "not GA friendly" we have to due to airspace limitations and traffic volume. When we can we help you guys out as much as possible. If you avoid the LAS terminal area from 10am-5pm you will get just about anything you want.
I know, I hope you didn't take it as an attack. It just irks me that the way that place is structured you can't get in there if you are GA. I am usually afforded the opportunity to go there VFR. In the future, I'll be going IFR to save the headache.
06-29-2010, 01:52 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 117
For a GA airplane, just go to North Las Vegas (or Henderson) and really avoid the headache of LAS altogether. I usually use VGT, it's quick in and out, and even if you spend 10-15 minutes more driving to your ultimate destination, you will likely save at least that - or more - over waiting in line for takeoff at LAS (watching SWA airplanes come and go, while you are ignored) or being vectored all over and delayed while on your arrival. I usually fly a King Air 200, so speed (on arrival) is not a problem....... I can pretty much match speeds with the inbound jets below 10,000 and/or inside of about 15 miles of the airport (especially with a bit of a downhill roll!) ....... but I am still treated like a second class citizen at LAS. I've flown into virtually every big airport west of the Mississippi and many others in the East, and IMHO the two worst airports in the USA - for treating GA airplanes (in my case, a King Air) like sh^t - are LAS and PHX........ and in both cases, it is obvious that the controllers give the airliners, particularly SWA, preferential treatment over GA.
06-29-2010, 07:56 AM
#25
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 6
I fly the brasilia for skywest and fly psp las a couple time a week. There are a few questions I have for you.
why do you always need us to be at 10k 40mi south of las? (its bumpy and hot down there)
we almost always have to sit at the end of the runway for 20+ min to get released, when we dont fly a dp just a heading.
whats with the step climb, any chance of giving us a heading away from descending traffic so we can get out of the heat and bumps and be on our way.
thanks
why do you always need us to be at 10k 40mi south of las? (its bumpy and hot down there)
we almost always have to sit at the end of the runway for 20+ min to get released, when we dont fly a dp just a heading.
whats with the step climb, any chance of giving us a heading away from descending traffic so we can get out of the heat and bumps and be on our way.
thanks
The reason you come in at 10000 is to keep you under the east and southbound departure streams and it gives us a fighting chance of keeping you under the 25L downwind if we give the right base to the 19's.
For the prop aircraft the tower is supposed to leave you on the DP. The alternate procedure which is used 99% of the time is to give you a 175 heading so they can get you out of the way of the jets. The reason why you have to wait to get released is because of dept/arrival traffic at the Henderson airport (HND) which is 5 miles south of LAS. The terrain and MVA's as well as the 19L/R depts. to the south gives us a very small corridor to route traffic. It's basically a one aircraft at a time corridor. The reasons why you are stepped up to 15000 are because of the 25L downwind and the eastbound RNAV dept. tracks. Eastbound departures fly about 3 miles south of HND and are barely through 9000 when they get there so we can't give you an unrestricted climb.
Due to terrain and MVA's we can only use about 30% of our airspace and unless you are a jet, flying though the LAS terminal area probably won't be as pleasant as flying elsewhere.
06-29-2010, 08:04 AM
#26
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 6
For a GA airplane, just go to North Las Vegas (or Henderson) and really avoid the headache of LAS altogether. I usually use VGT, it's quick in and out, and even if you spend 10-15 minutes more driving to your ultimate destination, you will likely save at least that - or more - over waiting in line for takeoff at LAS (watching SWA airplanes come and go, while you are ignored) or being vectored all over and delayed while on your arrival. I usually fly a King Air 200, so speed (on arrival) is not a problem....... I can pretty much match speeds with the inbound jets below 10,000 and/or inside of about 15 miles of the airport (especially with a bit of a downhill roll!) ....... but I am still treated like a second class citizen at LAS. I've flown into virtually every big airport west of the Mississippi and many others in the East, and IMHO the two worst airports in the USA - for treating GA airplanes (in my case, a King Air) like sh^t - are LAS and PHX........ and in both cases, it is obvious that the controllers give the airliners, particularly SWA, preferential treatment over GA.
07-11-2010, 11:27 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: 767 Right
Posts: 102
I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but this thread dropped fairly quickly. I liked hearing everyones LAS stories as I frequent the trip a lot.
Anyone got any other personal LAS experiences? Lots of 7R approaches during the summer!
Anyone got any other personal LAS experiences? Lots of 7R approaches during the summer!
07-12-2010, 12:16 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Sure, I was a brand new private pilot in 1986, so I decided to rent a brand new Cherokee Warrior and fly to LAS. I don't think they even had runway 25/7 then, but I could be wrong.
Anyhoo, I told them to refuel "to the tabs", but they completely filled the tanks. I had two pax, and the temp was typical summer 115F/45C. I was nervous being on the taxiway with all the "big" jets, and probably had 3 or 4 take off before me. It super hot in the cockpit, while I waited for takeoff.
When the big moment came, I applied power (I don't remember if I leaned at all for the high/hot conditions) and climbed out at something less than 100fpm. The oil temp pegged the meter. I leveled off to build up speed (and air) for cooling.
It took forever to get to a cooler altitude, and clear all the mountains on the way back to MCAS El Toro in Orange County, California (now closed).
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