View Poll Results: Cirrus Vision SF50: Would You Buy This Jet?
Yes.
3
27.27%
No. But, I Might Consider a Competitor (Specify Which)
3
27.27%
No.
4
36.36%
Other ________
1
9.09%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll
Cirrus Vision SF50: Would You Buy this Jet?
06-21-2010, 04:26 PM
#23
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Small Jet Captain
Posts: 18
As far as I am concerned the Cirrus Jet doesn't even exist yet. When they have delivered and have it fully certified it to do what they say it will do I will believe it. Otherwise, I am just waiting for another failure.
I would not buy one. Too many MUCH cheaper and better alternatives and too many far superior aircraft for around the same price.
If I had that much money to spend on a jet I would buy an older, Citation II, V, Bravo, CJ, or Sierra Mod 500/550 taking into consideration the increase in fuel burn and MX costs compared to the Cirrus Jet.
The service ceiling is only FL250. Less than a lot of turboprops and puts you right in the middle of most of the weather you don't want to be in.
It is very slow
It has 1 engine
Has no range
I doubt it has much payload with full fuel when it finally delivers.
I think this will be a great marketing opportunity for Cirrus to sell them to current Cirrus owners.
I fear for the aircraft's safety record. Another attempt to put non-professional pilots in an aircraft that may be too much to handle for them. The Cirrus SR22 has a very high number of fatal accidents. Now increase speed to 300 knots from 180, and let's see what happens.
I would not buy one. Too many MUCH cheaper and better alternatives and too many far superior aircraft for around the same price.
If I had that much money to spend on a jet I would buy an older, Citation II, V, Bravo, CJ, or Sierra Mod 500/550 taking into consideration the increase in fuel burn and MX costs compared to the Cirrus Jet.
The service ceiling is only FL250. Less than a lot of turboprops and puts you right in the middle of most of the weather you don't want to be in.
It is very slow
It has 1 engine
Has no range
I doubt it has much payload with full fuel when it finally delivers.
I think this will be a great marketing opportunity for Cirrus to sell them to current Cirrus owners.
I fear for the aircraft's safety record. Another attempt to put non-professional pilots in an aircraft that may be too much to handle for them. The Cirrus SR22 has a very high number of fatal accidents. Now increase speed to 300 knots from 180, and let's see what happens.
06-21-2010, 06:22 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: BE-20 PIC
Posts: 141
I risk IDing a few people by posting this but I had a good experience with VLJs a while back. I took an owner operator to go see his Adam 500 a few years ago. He eventually took delivery of the 500 and had a deposit on the 700. He wanted to fly the thing himself and in my opinion he didn't have the background to do that.
On the way out to APA I was talking with the captain and I said "you know he should forget the Adam500 and go buy a used Cj1 and have someone else fly it." Needless to say after the dust settled he has a very expensive Adam500 doorstop parked next to his hangar and a used Cj1 and a pro pilot.
Personally I don't give owner operators a lot of credit. It is just my opinion and I have that opinion purely from my own experience. If you have the money for a light jet get a pro pilot. After my experience with the TBM and listening to all of the accidents that my instructor told me about I don't think there are a lot of 180 knot plus airplanes out there that should be owner operated.
I would never ever buy a new unproven airplane from a manufacturer that did not have a significant amount of experience building the type of aircraft I was considering buying. Cirrus is a tough call because I think the single engine airplanes that they make are pretty nice. Although they have killed a lot of people. At the Palo Alto flying club we used to call them the dot com killer. The modern day version of the V tail doctor killer. I think this has more to do with the owner operator problem however.
This just seems like another bad idea destined for failure. I'd buy a used Cj1 or a TBM700 C2. Also I would get a pro pilot to fly it. Unless all I did was fly and there is no way you could make enough money flying to own any of the airplanes we are talking about.
On the way out to APA I was talking with the captain and I said "you know he should forget the Adam500 and go buy a used Cj1 and have someone else fly it." Needless to say after the dust settled he has a very expensive Adam500 doorstop parked next to his hangar and a used Cj1 and a pro pilot.
Personally I don't give owner operators a lot of credit. It is just my opinion and I have that opinion purely from my own experience. If you have the money for a light jet get a pro pilot. After my experience with the TBM and listening to all of the accidents that my instructor told me about I don't think there are a lot of 180 knot plus airplanes out there that should be owner operated.
I would never ever buy a new unproven airplane from a manufacturer that did not have a significant amount of experience building the type of aircraft I was considering buying. Cirrus is a tough call because I think the single engine airplanes that they make are pretty nice. Although they have killed a lot of people. At the Palo Alto flying club we used to call them the dot com killer. The modern day version of the V tail doctor killer. I think this has more to do with the owner operator problem however.
This just seems like another bad idea destined for failure. I'd buy a used Cj1 or a TBM700 C2. Also I would get a pro pilot to fly it. Unless all I did was fly and there is no way you could make enough money flying to own any of the airplanes we are talking about.
12-23-2010, 10:22 PM
#27
Moderator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
News clip on the HondaJet. I am always amazed how patient and thorough this pet-of-a-project is having witnessed the company attempt to make only one rather simple airplane for about a decade now. In about 2050 Honda will send out a press release saying, ok folks our little creation is truly and finally finished and we could certainly sell you one if we felt like it, but nobody really uses jets anymore because of all the teletransporters in existence, so you can't have one and don't need one anyway; but it was a lot of fun to work on this for 50 years!
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Honda Flies Its Conforming Jet
(FLYING e-Newsletter, 12/23) The first HondaJet configured for production flew earlier this week from the company's research and development facility in Greensboro, North Carolina. The new Model HA-420 HondaJet differs from the proof of concept version in that it uses more powerful engines - GE Honda Aero HF120s replacing the earlier HF118 versions. It also has enhanced aerodynamics that improve static stability and decrease drag, according to Honda Aircraft President and CEO Michimasa Fujino. The HondaJet is most recognizable for its unusual over-the-wing engine pylons. The design was chosen over the conventional tail-mounted engines to maximize cabin interior volume by eliminating the need for engine-mount carry-through structure in the aft section of the fuselage. Wind tunnel testing has shown that by carefully arranging the shape and angle of the over-wing pylons, Fujino has been able to match the drag numbers of a clean wing. The HondaJet that flew this week also incorporates the Garmin G3000 touchscreen avionics suite. It shares with the Piper Altaire single-engine jet the distinction of being launch customers for the system. The first flight lasted 51 minutes, reaching 12,500 feet and about 180 knots. The landing gear was not retracted on the first flight. Honda Aircraft had predicted first flight of the conforming aircraft before year end and expects deliveries of the HA-420 to begin in the third quarter of 2012.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honda Flies Its Conforming Jet
(FLYING e-Newsletter, 12/23) The first HondaJet configured for production flew earlier this week from the company's research and development facility in Greensboro, North Carolina. The new Model HA-420 HondaJet differs from the proof of concept version in that it uses more powerful engines - GE Honda Aero HF120s replacing the earlier HF118 versions. It also has enhanced aerodynamics that improve static stability and decrease drag, according to Honda Aircraft President and CEO Michimasa Fujino. The HondaJet is most recognizable for its unusual over-the-wing engine pylons. The design was chosen over the conventional tail-mounted engines to maximize cabin interior volume by eliminating the need for engine-mount carry-through structure in the aft section of the fuselage. Wind tunnel testing has shown that by carefully arranging the shape and angle of the over-wing pylons, Fujino has been able to match the drag numbers of a clean wing. The HondaJet that flew this week also incorporates the Garmin G3000 touchscreen avionics suite. It shares with the Piper Altaire single-engine jet the distinction of being launch customers for the system. The first flight lasted 51 minutes, reaching 12,500 feet and about 180 knots. The landing gear was not retracted on the first flight. Honda Aircraft had predicted first flight of the conforming aircraft before year end and expects deliveries of the HA-420 to begin in the third quarter of 2012.
03-30-2011, 07:19 AM
#30
Moderator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Maybe I was wrong. HAC seems to be aggressively testing a few HA-420 prototypes in Greensboro and they claim they are going to deliver a few to customers in 2012. I wonder how the icing certification is coming along.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
HondaJet Flies At Maximum Speed.
The Greensboro (NC) News & Record (3/30, Barron) reports, "The first HondaJet that conforms to FAA regulations for testing has now been flown at its maximum speed of 489 mph [425 kts] at 30,000 feet, the company said Tuesday." Furthermore, during the flight, the plane "hit a slightly higher speed than the company had predicted." Honda Aircraft CEO Michimasa Fujino "said that wings made of high-tech composites and new engines that are mounted on top of the wings have proven to make the aircraft especially maneuverable and responsive."
Diamond Suspends D-Jet Development.
Flight International (3/29, Sarsfield) reported, "Diamond has suspended development of its D-jet personal jet and temporarily laid off 213 employees at its London Ontario facility." The cuts had to be made because the industry was "severely hit by the financial downturn" and Diamond and other personal jet orders were "ravaged." Diamond president Peter Maurer said the company had hoped for "a positive response to our request for a federal government loan."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
HondaJet Flies At Maximum Speed.
The Greensboro (NC) News & Record (3/30, Barron) reports, "The first HondaJet that conforms to FAA regulations for testing has now been flown at its maximum speed of 489 mph [425 kts] at 30,000 feet, the company said Tuesday." Furthermore, during the flight, the plane "hit a slightly higher speed than the company had predicted." Honda Aircraft CEO Michimasa Fujino "said that wings made of high-tech composites and new engines that are mounted on top of the wings have proven to make the aircraft especially maneuverable and responsive."
Diamond Suspends D-Jet Development.
Flight International (3/29, Sarsfield) reported, "Diamond has suspended development of its D-jet personal jet and temporarily laid off 213 employees at its London Ontario facility." The cuts had to be made because the industry was "severely hit by the financial downturn" and Diamond and other personal jet orders were "ravaged." Diamond president Peter Maurer said the company had hoped for "a positive response to our request for a federal government loan."
Last edited by Cubdriver; 03-30-2011 at 07:31 AM.
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