ToiletDuck

anyone know a good place where I can find the value on piston aircraft engines? Came across a couple at a good price I'm thinking of picking up.

Cubdrick

Check Trade-A-Plane (tradeaplane.com) or Barnstormers.com for asking prices. If you're looking for a more true value, AOPA gives it's members ($39/yr) access to a Vref tool.

When figuring costs, remember acquisition is only the beginning [and usually the cheapest part] of ownership.


Good luck,
Cubdrick

edit - I'm not a member, but I believe AOPA's tool lets one value an aircraft based on TT, engine TSMOH, interior, exterior, and avionics condition/age/complexity.

ToiletDuck

Actually I'm an aircraft appraiser and it was doing that which led me to these guys. While simply adjusting the times on the engines changes the aircraft value that doesn't really tell you the value of the engines. That tells you the value of the aircraft with the engine on it. Think of it like a car. Might cost you $30k to buy the car but if you bought each piece on it's own and put it together that car will cost you much more. As an individual part the engines will hold greater value then if I was simply to appraise the value of an aircraft with them and then without them.

I'm not looking to actually use the engines. They're in good condition, half their TBO, and well within the calender limitation of 12yrs as well. I feel they are a good price. I'm looking to see if it'd be worth picking them up to flip to someone else. I guess I'll hit up a few places that sell engines and see what they think they're worth.

ryan1234

IMHO, TBO has to be put in perspective. I know of an engine on an Aztec that's outside of its year limitations and at about 2600hrs... yet everything is working very well, compressions are great - just good condition.

Then I know some flight school IO-360s that are mid time and are in terrible condition, bad compressions - and all kinds of bad signs.

Everytime I hear some of these guys making touch and goes and slamming the throttle forward - you just think of those cranks being thrown out of balance.

Unfortunately it's hard to sell someone a high time engine that's been 'taken care of', they'd rather take the bad engine with the low times.

So to put a value to it (as it would be for parts) I'd take into account where it comes from, the overall history, and who did the overhaul.... but that's a pretty subjective process and it's hard to really relay that to a buyer.

I've seen some interesting logs with several 'unusual entries', despite low times - you probably do this already, but I've tried to match the all of the aircraft's logs chronologically.

JMHO

Kilgore Trout

Ryan makes some excellent points. Good care and logbooks are key for value.

I would also like to suggest another source for perusing or advertising, especially if you are looking at dealing in 0-320's, 360's, 470's, or IO-520/540's. Stuff widely used in AK in other words.

Alaska's List : Showing ads in Transportation > Aircraft

Good luck.

ToiletDuck

I know what you're saying but in the world of assessing value once an engine is at/past it's TBO or double the calendar year limitation the value of that engine drops to zero. Either way TBO is TBO. Just because it's running great now doesn't mean it won't cost you twice as much to overhaul once they start digging in it. It can run as smooth as they get but that's not all that matters. It's what you can't see that's the issue and value wise no one would pay much for it. These aren't flight school engines.

As far as logs go yes I do complete audits of any aircraft. Airframe, power-plants, props, 337s, etc. From the first hour to the last. Sometimes they get a little hairy but after going through them for a while it's usually possible to get everything to matched up. If not then that means part of that aircraft's history isn't accounted for and it hurts it's value. Thanks for the ideas!

ryan1234

Good luck with the deal.. hopefully it works out well for you! - I'm a little biased... just trying to sell an older 'B' model Aztec for a friend.

ToiletDuck

What's he asking for it? If you want me to shoot you a generic unofficial value get me the year model, TT on airframe and engines. Last overhaul of engines, airframe condition 1-10(and be hard on yourself), paint 1-10, interior 1-10, and list the avionics. Props and times too. Hangar rash etc should be noted as well as any accident history. Feel free to send it to me via pm if you're interested. Full reports are normally around 12 pages not including the pictures so don't expect that

With an engine that is that high time the value of it will have to be zeroed out. Running great, sure, but does it carry value, no. Not for the sake of assessing the aircraft's value anyways. When a buyer is going to look at an aircraft they have to assume that engine could go at anytime when in reality it could. Calender limitations on engines are one thing a lot overlook. 12yrs is probably the limitation on those engines but for value sake we say double that amount. If the engine hasn't been overhauled in 24yrs the value of it is zero. The bearings start to flatten out which causes additional wear and there's no telling what small deposits are working their way around the engine. It might have great compression and be nice and responsive but the parts could be shot on the inside causing additional wear.

deadstick35

Check Air Power and look at the core values. It really depends on the model and the accessories included.

For instance, IO-520-CB is about $13k and a TSIO-520-NB is about $14k.

ToiletDuck

Hey thanks for the heads up. TSIO-360. Not a bad little engine IF you don't mind having a turbo engine. Personally I'm not a fan but someone out there might want. 210hp.