Winged Wheeler

You think that climategate came to nothing--you are entitled to your own opinion. I think that many people now smell a rat and don't believe the hysterical doomsday scenarios pushed by the alarmists. A good test will be when the senate takes up the cap and trade legislation--I don't think the public wants it and I don't think it will pass. We shall see.

Let's look at your post paragraph by paragraph:

What you wrote in the first paragraph is the essence of an ad hominem attack--"corrupt scientist takes money from evil corporation". Appealing to ad hominem attacks does not always invalidate an argument, sometimes it can be used effectively. For example, think of a lawyer cross examining a witness previously convicted of perjury. Often, however, an ad hominem attack is a signal that you've got nothing else. That appears to be the case here. If Lindzen's science is so bad, let's hear why--not who paid for the study. And you can skip the red herring about tobacco companies--irrelevant to your argument.

I can look around and see if I can find a summary of CO2,water vapor, and clouds in climate models. I am pretty sure that the effect of CO2 on atmospheric temperature is logarhythmic and so secondary effects from water vapor are required to cause additional warming. I'll take a look when I've got a bit more time.

Your next paragraph is embarrassing. The temperature range for life on earth is an order of magnitude greater than all the warming that has taken place since the last ice age. Since the industrial revolution we're pushing the boundary? I almost always disagree with you but at least you usually sound like you've thought about it.

I do agree with you that science is rejected on political and economic grounds. That is why so many of us have a problem with climategate--cherry picking data, steering grants to like minded researchers, taking editorial control of important journals, etc. Between climategate and the apparent unreliability of the much of the IPCC reports many of us think that political and economic forces are driving much of the approved science.

WW

FDXLAG

Question 1. Does life flourish better at the current temperature spread or does it flourish better a little warmer and with more CO2? Ie if you had to guess where would you more likely see a greater variety and quantity of life; the equatroial rain forest or arctic tundra?

Question 2. Who says America is no longer a leader in science and technology? Or are you speaking exclusively of green science and technology?

Question 3. When did America's lead on the world in science and technology start to slip; before of after the environmental movement took hold?

Winged Wheeler

The METAR format has, for temp and dewpoint the format: 13/10. Or, if it is cold: M13/M15. Airports are an increasingly large part of the ground station network recording global temperatures.

The link is to a post, way to long to put up here, detailing an investigation of possible data entry errors in METAR; i.e., leaving off an M or putting a minus sign. In both cases it dramatically changes the observation temp if it is cold. Possibly of interest to pilots who like climate conversation:

GISS & METAR – dial “M” for missing minus signs: it’s worse than we thought Watts Up With That?

Notice that I have made no claims other than to point out the possible effects. I will wait for the analysis before I make any claims.

WW

Winged Wheeler

look at the temp for this place and the recent temps. then look at where it is. hope this isn't in the climate data network.

Phippsoya, Norway Forecast : Weather Underground

jungle

Naive. Let us redefine that term. Anyone who thinks the UN is beyond corruption is indeed naive. It is one of the largest cesspools of corruption on the planet. Even the most superficial examination of their history makes this evident.
Speaking of science, please list for us the past UN scientific accomplishments. It will take much, much less than a 3x5 card. In fact, you won't need any paper at all, because there aren't any.


Go ahead and run your car or industry or the economy on what the UN sells.
You won't get very far and nobody buys it.
Their "science" is a pure play for control.

You siddle up to the UN as if they have some super power. Why don't you tell us which countries are on their human rights committee?
We can all get a hearty laugh out of that.

N2264J

Be careful. All the geeky nerds are on my side.

Arctic poised to see record low sea ice volume this year


NASA: Easily the hottest April — and hottest Jan-April — in temperature record Climate Progress

jungle

That is funny, just last month they said there had been no significant warming over the last 15 years.

The real joke is that the earth has been both warmer and cooler long before the arrival of man. If you remove man tomorrow, it is still going to be warmer and cooler.

Zombie science marches on, propelled by grants and the will to control, never showing any practical application worth the effort.

Al Gore just bought a very lavish compound near the west coast, the indications are that he is not too worried about rising sea levels. Business is good, even if it alters the climate not one tiny bit.


Thanks for the heads up though, I have adjusted my climate control down one tenth of a degree to compensate.

KC10 FATboy

Major Late Snowstorm Slams Wyoming ...

000
Wwus45 Kriw 130822
Wswriw

Urgent - Winter Weather Message
National Weather Service Riverton Wy
222 Am Mdt Sun Jun 13 2010

...major Late Spring Snowstorm Will Continue To Affect The East
Slopes Of The Wind River Mountains...the Green And Rattlesnake
Mountains And Casper Mountain Through Noon Today...

.a Very Strong Late Season Storm Will Move Across Southern Wyoming
Today. Moisture Circulating Around Low Pressure To The South Will
Produce Light To Moderate Snow In The East Slopes Of The Wind River
Mountains...the Green And Rattlesnake Mountains And Casper Mountain
Through Around Noon Today. Snow Levels Will Be Around 7000 Feet This
Morning Through Noon Today.

Wyz015-131800-
/o.con.kriw.ws.w.0011.000000t0000z-100613t1800z/
Wind River Mountains East-
222 Am Mdt Sun Jun 13 2010

...winter Storm Warning Remains In Effect Until Noon Mdt Today...

A Winter Storm Warning Remains In Effect Until Noon Mdt Today.

* Summary And Timing...heavy Snow Accumulated Down To Around 7000
Feet Yesterday...and 10 To 15 Inches Has Fallen Above 7500 Feet.
Light To Moderate Snow Will Continue Through Around Noon Today.
Additional Accumulations Of 2 To 3 Inches Are Expected Above
7000 Feet And An Additional 3 To 5 Inches Of Snow Are Expected
Above 8000 Feet.

* Snow Accumulations...total Snow Accumulation Of Between 18 And
30 Inches Is Expected Above 8000 Feet With 10 To 15 Inches Above
7000 Feet.

* Wind And Visibility...east To Northeast Winds Of 10 To 20 Mph
Are Expected This Morning. Visibilities Will Be Reduced To Less
Than One Mile In Snow This Morning.

* Impacts...travel Over South Pass May Be Hazardous This Morning
Due To Reduced Visibility And Slick Roads.

Precautionary/preparedness Actions...

A Winter Storm Warning For Heavy Snow Means Severe Winter Weather
Conditions Are Expected Or Occurring. Significant Amounts Of
Snow Are Forecast That Will Make Travel Dangerous. Only Travel In
An Emergency. If You Must Travel...keep An Extra Flashlight...
Food...and Water In Your Vehicle In Case Of An Emergency.

&&

$$

DYNASTY HVY

post deleted.

N2264J

Who Cooked the Planet?
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: July 25, 2010

Never say that the gods lack a sense of humor. I bet they’re still chuckling on Olympus over the decision to make the first half of 2010 — the year in which all hope of action to limit climate change died — the hottest such stretch on record.

Of course, you can’t infer trends in global temperatures from one year’s experience. But ignoring that fact has long been one of the favorite tricks of climate-change deniers: they point to an unusually warm year in the past, and say “See, the planet has been cooling, not warming, since 1998!” Actually, 2005, not 1998, was the warmest year to date — but the point is that the record-breaking temperatures we’re currently experiencing have made a nonsense argument even more nonsensical; at this point it doesn’t work even on its own terms.

But will any of the deniers say “O.K., I guess I was wrong,” and support climate action? No. And the planet will continue to cook.

So why didn’t climate-change legislation get through the Senate? Let’s talk first about what didn’t cause the failure, because there have been many attempts to blame the wrong people.

First of all, we didn’t fail to act because of legitimate doubts about the science. Every piece of valid evidence — long-term temperature averages that smooth out year-to-year fluctuations, Arctic sea ice volume, melting of glaciers, the ratio of record highs to record lows — points to a continuing, and quite possibly accelerating, rise in global temperatures.

Nor is this evidence tainted by scientific misbehavior. You’ve probably heard about the accusations leveled against climate researchers — allegations of fabricated data, the supposedly damning e-mail messages of “Climategate,” and so on. What you may not have heard, because it has received much less publicity, is that every one of these supposed scandals was eventually unmasked as a fraud concocted by opponents of climate action, then bought into by many in the news media. You don’t believe such things can happen?

Think Shirley Sherrod.

Did reasonable concerns about the economic impact of climate legislation block action? No. It has always been funny, in a gallows humor sort of way, to watch conservatives who laud the limitless power and flexibility of markets turn around and insist that the economy would collapse if we were to put a price on carbon. All serious estimates suggest that we could phase in limits on greenhouse gas emissions with at most a small impact on the economy’s growth rate.

So it wasn’t the science, the scientists, or the economics that killed action on climate change. What was it?

The answer is, the usual suspects: greed and cowardice.

If you want to understand opposition to climate action, follow the money. The economy as a whole wouldn’t be significantly hurt if we put a price on carbon, but certain industries — above all, the coal and oil industries — would. And those industries have mounted a huge disinformation campaign to protect their bottom lines.

Look at the scientists who question the consensus on climate change; look at the organizations pushing fake scandals; look at the think tanks claiming that any effort to limit emissions would cripple the economy. Again and again, you’ll find that they’re on the receiving end of a pipeline of funding that starts with big energy companies, like Exxon Mobil, which has spent tens of millions of dollars promoting climate-change denial, or Koch Industries, which has been sponsoring anti-environmental organizations for two decades.

Or look at the politicians who have been most vociferously opposed to climate action. Where do they get much of their campaign money? You already know the answer.

By itself, however, greed wouldn’t have triumphed. It needed the aid of cowardice — above all, the cowardice of politicians who know how big a threat global warming poses, who supported action in the past, but who deserted their posts at the crucial moment.

There are a number of such climate cowards, but let me single out one in particular: Senator John McCain.

There was a time when Mr. McCain was considered a friend of the environment. Back in 2003 he burnished his maverick image by co-sponsoring legislation that would have created a cap-and-trade system for greenhouse gas emissions. He reaffirmed support for such a system during his presidential campaign, and things might look very different now if he had continued to back climate action once his opponent was in the White House. But he didn’t — and it’s hard to see his switch as anything other than the act of a man willing to sacrifice his principles, and humanity’s future, for the sake of a few years added to his political career.

Alas, Mr. McCain wasn’t alone; and there will be no climate bill. Greed, aided by cowardice, has triumphed. And the whole world will pay the price.