EVpilot

[quote=Carl Spackler;756674]Never said this kind of guy is the enemy. I've only said that if his/her ultimate goal is to join a major, then building his/her time at a regional is the worst of all choices - because regionals are killing the growth of majors.

Who do the majors hire from? Regionals. Majors are killing their own growth with the blessing of their pilot groups. We aren't stealing scope. You guys keep giving it away! Our companies are providing your comanies with contract lift. So it is your company giving your jobs away that is the problem. Quit blaming us and look in the mirror for a change

toomanyrjs

[QUOTE=EVpilot;756688]Blah, blah, blah.

BoeingMyWay

Putting aside the old argument of military vs civilian, since the military guy/gal has historically gotten the job first, the most sought after "experience" that the majors want/require is "121 PIC Turbine Time". You don't get that flying corporate....part 91/135. Most "freight" jobs, obviously not talking the FedEx/UPS ones, also wouldn't qualify. The regionals are the only way to get that time, and a lot of it. At the end of a year's flying, the corporate pilot might have 400-500 hrs logged. Freight guys not much better....maybe even less. Regional pilots typically log 850+. More hours, 121 time, in an airline environment is the most desirable type of flying the majors want to see and you get that at the regionals....period! To say otherwise is nonsense.
Now, to claim that working for a regional is counter-productive to eventual employment at the majors due to the "transfer" of many mainline routes to the regionals.....well that's a whole other issue. The regional vs major battle was lost long ago. Back in the day, the "commuters" flying turboprop aircraft before the "RJ's" were born, were no threat to replacing mainline aircraft. They would, by design, always be limited by speed and distance and thus would never encroach on the "majors" turf. In the early 90's when the first of the "RJ'S" were coming on the scene, it should have been the first order of business to have that flying performed at the major level, at all costs!! Unfortunately, mainline pilots gave up the fight in exchange for better pay, work rules, retirements, etc.... Greed, complacency, and/or a total lack of any foresight, set in motion the scenario we have today. They then tried to stop the tsunami of "regional jets" with scope clauses that have been chipped away at by management at every new contract amendment or dissolved completely by bankruptcy judges in chapter 11 proceedings. The war was over before it began. I wish the "regional" flying was performed at the mainline level but it's not, nor will it ever be. Stop blaming the pilots at the regional level, as it truly was the fault of the mainline pilots many years ago who sold out for short term gains and created the mess our profession has deteriorated to today.

Scoop

Wow,

Upton Sinclair, John Steinbeck,and Ayn Rand all referenced in one thread - it almost makes up for the more frequent childish posts.

Scoop - looking forward to the PBS special.

EVpilot

Thank you! I wish more people could see this simple truth.

chuckyt1

But they did encroach. I flew for American Eagle, in the late '80's/early 90's, when the ATR starting doing PIT, CLE, etc. (Out of ORD. Direct replacement for AA flying). AA had pilots on furlough and AE was picking up their flying.

The RJ, has of course, increased the threat.

FlyJSH

Well, Carl, good for you.

Maybe all airline pilots should be former military. At least then the wages would be high since so few of us could qualify for a military slot. Unfortunately for me, I was unable to get a flying slot so I ended up enlisted.

I was an instructor for about 1500 hours. When my comrades went to regionals and took a pay cut, I said that ain't right. So I chose the 135 route.

I flew a Caravan for 18 months and gained 800 hours of turbine PIC (all be it single). When I put in resumes, I got no response. Meanwhile, my friends who bit the bullet, took the low paying regional job, had the experience the mainlines wanted and got interviews.

I figured maybe more multi time would help. So, I got a job flying a 421. I got a couple thousand hours doing that. But could I get an interview with a mainline? Nope. By now, most of the folks I had instructed with were flying MDs, Boeings, and Airbii.

So, there I was with 5000TT, 2500 multi PIC, and a fair amount of turbine time. And NO INTERVIEWS. Using your logic, I sould have just accepted that I should never grace the cockpit of an airliner. Instead, I took a job at an ACTUAL REGIONAL carrier that flew turbo props with hopes of a fairly quick upgrade. Maybe then, with some 121 PIC, I could earn the chance to get an interview.

Instead, I am regarded as a lowlife, bottom feeder, who is contributing to the downfall of the industry.

Sorry buddy, I guess I just can't live up to your standards.

(Just out of curiosity, how often to you jumpseat on an evil, industry eroding, regional?)

ToiletDuck

Seriously? Being a little over dramatic aren't we? Were the NWA MSP overfly, AMR jamaica, DAL taxiway, SWA Midway, all the cheapest? Who sets those prices the regionals or the majors? If I'm going from Grand Rapids to Houston both the lowest and highest tickets still put you on a rj. Sooner or later everyone's just going to have to admit you can't stop accidents from happening entirely and with no one standing out of the crowd with a mass amount of incidences how can anyone specifically be blamed?

syd111

Don't know about Carl but I can say I have never used a regional's jumpseat even though I have a continous flow of regional jumpseaters come through my door every time I fly. It is an interesting subject that you bring up as many of the pilots that I fly with don't want them on the js anymore, of course from the pilots that don't commute none of them want the regionals on board. Just my 2 cents since you mention it.

dosbo

No, not being over dramatic just realistic. Whenever my wife goes to walmart I remind her she is buying the lowest quality product available and it will likely have to replaced before it normally should be.

When passengers buy a ticket they don't understand the difference between major and regional and assume that there is one level of quality and safety. In my opinion the FAA let things get out of control by allowing major brands to outsource core functions of thier certificate to subcontractors allowing loss of accounability and plausable deniability (It's not my fault the subcontractor did it). Majors also lose control of quality of service when flying is outsourced and coustomers have come to accept and expect minimal service at the minimal price. Unfortunately they don't understand or acknowledge the downward price pressure on safety issues such as crew qualification, experience and maintenance.

I know from personal experience that the work load for a captain increases when a low time/experience first officer is on the pairing. I firmly believe that 121 flying is not the place to learn basic decision making skills and build experience.

Basically you get what you pay for. The customer has chosen to pay the lowest fare, as a result flying is outsourced to the lowest cost vendor.