atpwannabe

You know, I've been a member of this forum for just about 3 1/2 years now and I gotta admit that some of the comments that I read about the CA that passed on CAL Flight 61 were disturbing to say the least.

Now this is not thread to bash those who made uncaring and insensitive remarks; no this post just merely offers a suggestion in which I'm going to try very hard to stay within the framework of the TOS.

My comment is this: I'm a firm believer that one day, what we say and do will come up for review.....like a movie......you'd better make damn sure YOURS is worth watching.


JMO.



atp

TheDashRocks

Yeah. We all have to stand by what we have done and said, including scabs. There is no justification for being a scab. The quote below is attributed to Jack London.

The Scab


"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab."

"A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles."

"When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

"No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not."

"Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army. The scab sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer."

"Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class."

ATPWannabe, I am guessing that you are just beginning your journey in professional flying. You will often hear pilots expressing concerns about what they feel are the downsides to our profession. Low pay, tough schedules, and evaporating retirement benefits are just a few. People who choose to scab make these more likely, not less. Take every opportunity you have to join and assist your union.

The Dash Whisperer

Fishfreighter

Well said, Dash.

highsky

Grasshopper, you have much to learn about the advancement of our profession and standard of living.

Your company writes the check, but the union fills in the amount.

There is no room in the game for either the tolerance or sympathy of SCABS. Uncompromised unity is what gives a union its teeth.

rickair7777

While I won't make comments about the deceased, I will not forgive the guy just because he croaked. He made a decision which defined his professional life and reputation, and had to live with it. Dying doesn't redefine your life, one way or the other.

It takes a few years in the airline industry to understand why people are not sympathetic to this guy.

atpwannabe

I understand that our personal and professional lives are interdependent to some given direction and/or magnitude. I guess at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, especially given in a situation like this, I've learned to separate the two and see each in its own light.


atp

Kilgore Trout

"Some men worship rank, some worship heroes, some worship power, some worship God, and over these ideals they dispute and cannot unite--
but they all worship money."

dojetdriver

You ever been in a labor dispute and walked a picket line?


Just My EXPERIENCED Opinion

Kilgore Trout

You know,
Maybe I am in the minority.
Up here doing my Alaska 135 thing. For the last 13 years. Not flying this summer due to the crummy economy. Wrenching though, pulling in a paycheck.
Non-union paycheck. Yeah I guess I'm pulling all you union "brothers" and "sisters" down, huh?
On my own.
Don't need anyone to look out for me. Especially YOU. who post things like "I heard he was a scab" about a dead man on a internet forum where his family might have turned to for remembrance, or at least somewhat more of a memorial than this **** poor one the original thread on APC turned out to be.
You lot posting negative things about a dead man sure as hell won't represent ME.
And I ain't asking you to.
I don't like you.
Saabarooski, or Joey Meatballs, or whatever the new screen name will be- whining about how you ain't important or wealthy enough to be in the New York Times Wedding Announcements. Telling us all about how you've messed up your life because you CHOSE a flying career, but then posting photos of your goofy modified rice rocket that probably cost 30K plus.
Or the DashRocks, who plays it off like he's somebody who comes from the Tomcat community with his Jolly Rogers avatar- tell us about why you use that avatar DashRocks. Were you ever an F-14 pilot, or did you even wrench on one, or wear a uniform for Uncle Sam?
All you EXPERIENCED lot. Like you Dojetdriver. Wow, maybe someday you can teach me something about life, and flying to Cleveland. For a union that turns human beings into YOU.

You brave ones behind your keyboards.
Brotherhood.
Solidarity.
Ha!
I don't want any of what you represent, if that's what you are, truly.

The truth is- you who have been brave, and outstanding in your comments about "scabs" and union solidarity about a man who died-
yes, it's in bad taste. Let it go.
Let that man rest in peace.
You were not there when he made the decisions he made.
You were not there when he needed you.

ATPWannabe- You are right- those comments are/were in bad taste.
Rest in Peace.

TheDashRocks

[quote=Kilgore Trout;632519]...Up here doing my Alaska 135 thing...pulling in a paycheck. Non-union paycheck. Yeah I guess I'm pulling all you union "brothers" and "sisters" down, huh?

Not necessarily. You are only pulling us down if you have been part of an effort to decertifiy a union or defeat the effort of a union to organize your company.

Knowing nothing about your situation, I have questions. Do you have health insurance? Is it provided by your company or did you purchase it on your own? Do you have a company retirement plan or are you planning on social security combined with personal savings?

Union contracts increase wages and benefits. It is not for nothing that companies like Walmart spend millions to prevent their employees from organizing themselves into union locals. Your preference for lower wages and benefits does not draw my admiration.

On my own.
Don't need anyone to look out for me. Especially YOU.

Are you a rugged individualist living off the land? Like some of your fellow Alaskans, do you resent the Federal government and its intrusion into your lives? How do you feel about the groups that advocate succession from the Union, the United States, that is? I find it ironic that we hear much from your state about independence and self reliance while Alaska consumes more Federal funds per capita than any other state.

You do not need anyone to look out for you? If your home catches fire, will you put it out alone, hope neighbors can help, or rely on the government's fire fighters (many of whom belong to a union)? At some point, we all need someone's help.

Do you ever use a road built under government contract by union workers? Instead, do you maintain your independence by cutting your own trail through the bush? If so, I am sure you are rigidly careful not to violate the private property rights of any land holder.

I wonder if your anti-unionism is based on experience? Did you work for a union firm and leave for a better paying non-union job with better benefits? I wonder if your negative feelings toward unions are knee-jerk and not accompanied by critical thinking? Are you like someone without health insurance who drives a car with a "Stop Socialized Medicine" bumpersticker? Someone who rages against "government health care" despite the fact that our current system is the most expensive and worst performing in the western world?

You lot posting negative things about a dead man sure as hell won't represent ME.

Will you be as angry if Rush Limbaugh dances on Teddy Kennedy's grave?

I don't like you.

My objective is not to have you either like or dislike me. I just hope to give some food for thought. Issues like this inflame passions on all sides. In discussing the death of the CAL pilot, I tried to maintain some decorum. I am sympathetic to his family and the fact that they could not be with him at his passing. I am sympathetic that his family did not have the opportunity to enjoy his golden years during his union-provided retirement. I strongly deplore the crossing of a picket line and this does not soften with his demise.

Or the DashRocks, who plays it off like he's somebody who comes from the Tomcat community with his Jolly Rogers avatar- tell us about why you use that avatar DashRocks. Were you ever an F-14 pilot, or did you even wrench on one, or wear a uniform for Uncle Sam?

I was not a military pilot and did not serve in the Navy. I was honorably discharged as an E-5 from another branch of service. I chose the avatar because I am familiar with the history of the various Jolly Roger squadrons, have known two past members, and felt that it was a way to show respect for past and present members of the squadron.

You brave ones behind your keyboards.
Brotherhood.
Solidarity.
Ha!
I don't want any of what you represent, if that's what you are, truly.

Is Kilgore Trout your real name, my friend?

Let that man rest in peace.
You were not there when he made the decisions he made.
You were not there when he needed you.

At least once, at a crucial time, he was not there when his fellow pilots needed him.