The Black Hole
05-27-2009, 08:33 PM
#1
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Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
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The Black Hole
An interesting article sent to me by a friend.
Does anyone out there have a "black hole" story to share?
Sometimes I think that an illusion is blamed when basic airwork and headwork broke down before the optical illusion played a part.
http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html
USMCFLYR
Does anyone out there have a "black hole" story to share?
Sometimes I think that an illusion is blamed when basic airwork and headwork broke down before the optical illusion played a part.
http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html
USMCFLYR
05-27-2009, 08:59 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Fact
I've felt it but overcame it, mostly due to being aware of the phenomenom. This is taught early-on in USAF pilot training. Pretty sure they taught me this in Tweets. In fact, I usually over-compensate: I feel the black hole effect, think of the dire warnings in pilot training, and end up on a steep wire.
Story: I think it was National Airlines, but I know it was a 727, landing on Rwy 26 at Pensacola regional. The approach is over Escambia Bay. I know it was night but don't know if other weather was a factor. (I think this accident was in the 1970s, and I'm pretty sure the only approach was a VOR, with no PAPI or VASI).
Anyway, they landed in the water about 2-3 miles short of the runway. (I've always wondered: if bringing an airplane to a full-stop on land is a landing, then shouldn't "a water landing" be called a "watering?" And shouldn't traps on a carrier be called a "Shipping" or "Boating?")
The bay isn't very deep where they touched down. The jet sat on its landing gear (on the bottom of the bay), with the cabin floor right about at sea-level!! Unfortunately, a couple of people drowned in the mayhem of emergency evacuating in the dark, in the water.
Story: I think it was National Airlines, but I know it was a 727, landing on Rwy 26 at Pensacola regional. The approach is over Escambia Bay. I know it was night but don't know if other weather was a factor. (I think this accident was in the 1970s, and I'm pretty sure the only approach was a VOR, with no PAPI or VASI).
Anyway, they landed in the water about 2-3 miles short of the runway. (I've always wondered: if bringing an airplane to a full-stop on land is a landing, then shouldn't "a water landing" be called a "watering?" And shouldn't traps on a carrier be called a "Shipping" or "Boating?")
The bay isn't very deep where they touched down. The jet sat on its landing gear (on the bottom of the bay), with the cabin floor right about at sea-level!! Unfortunately, a couple of people drowned in the mayhem of emergency evacuating in the dark, in the water.
05-27-2009, 09:29 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
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One of the stories told to be by this friend who sent the article was about a squadronmate who nearly hit the ground short of the runway at NAS Fallon. He reported that his wingman who was behind him could actually see the ground from the glow of the ABs after he saved himself! But this was the point - though it may have been blamed partly on the illusion; I think of all the BAW errors and poor headwork that led to have putting himself in position to begin with - with the illusion being the icing on the cake.
In any case - everyone be careful out there!
USMCFLYR
In any case - everyone be careful out there!
USMCFLYR
05-28-2009, 05:06 AM
#4
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
Just as dangerous is a black-hole departure. Try flying off of BKL(Burke-Lakefront Cleveland). First part of your departure is turn north over Lake Eerie to a 350 heading, 2000'. Right conditions you'll pretty much lose all visual reference, even in VFR conditions, as soon as you start your turn. I've felt my head "turn" and went straight to the AI and A/S. There was a guy who was training for my former company that experienced this, but didn't correct and went up 300', and then started a turning descent. The full-time pilot who was in the right seat had to forcefully take over the plane as they were already down to 200' over the water. Definately makes you appreciate your training, and knowing you need to stick with what you learned!
05-28-2009, 12:51 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
The USN and USMC puts everyone through a Spatial D simulator created by Walt Disney. Besides the really cheesy Top Gun lyrics and theatrical soundtrack, the simulator does an outstanding job of showing all of the Spatial Ds that can overwhelm you while in the cockpit.
The USAF didn't have a simulator, but they do have some good reading in the http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/share...AN11-217V1.pdf Go to Chapter 17.
I witnessed a crew member suffer from the blackhole effect while flying a night approach in VMC conditions to Al Udeid Air Base. It is real, very dangerous, but also very easy to prevent.
Just build yourself a poor man's ILS. Take DME times 3 (add two zeros) and you have your altitude for a normal 3-degree glidepath. But, don't blindly do this. You must know the terrain between you and the runway. There could be a mountain lurking in the darkness between you and the runway.
This is just one of the many many ways your body can fool you. Trust your instruments!
-Fatty
The USAF didn't have a simulator, but they do have some good reading in the http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/share...AN11-217V1.pdf Go to Chapter 17.
I witnessed a crew member suffer from the blackhole effect while flying a night approach in VMC conditions to Al Udeid Air Base. It is real, very dangerous, but also very easy to prevent.
Just build yourself a poor man's ILS. Take DME times 3 (add two zeros) and you have your altitude for a normal 3-degree glidepath. But, don't blindly do this. You must know the terrain between you and the runway. There could be a mountain lurking in the darkness between you and the runway.
This is just one of the many many ways your body can fool you. Trust your instruments!
-Fatty
05-30-2009, 04:06 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
I've felt it but overcame it, mostly due to being aware of the phenomenom. This is taught early-on in USAF pilot training. Pretty sure they taught me this in Tweets. In fact, I usually over-compensate: I feel the black hole effect, think of the dire warnings in pilot training, and end up on a steep wire.
Story: I think it was National Airlines, but I know it was a 727, landing on Rwy 26 at Pensacola regional. The approach is over Escambia Bay. I know it was night but don't know if other weather was a factor. (I think this accident was in the 1970s, and I'm pretty sure the only approach was a VOR, with no PAPI or VASI).
Anyway, they landed in the water about 2-3 miles short of the runway. (I've always wondered: if bringing an airplane to a full-stop on land is a landing, then shouldn't "a water landing" be called a "watering?" And shouldn't traps on a carrier be called a "Shipping" or "Boating?")
The bay isn't very deep where they touched down. The jet sat on its landing gear (on the bottom of the bay), with the cabin floor right about at sea-level!! Unfortunately, a couple of people drowned in the mayhem of emergency evacuating in the dark, in the water.
Story: I think it was National Airlines, but I know it was a 727, landing on Rwy 26 at Pensacola regional. The approach is over Escambia Bay. I know it was night but don't know if other weather was a factor. (I think this accident was in the 1970s, and I'm pretty sure the only approach was a VOR, with no PAPI or VASI).
Anyway, they landed in the water about 2-3 miles short of the runway. (I've always wondered: if bringing an airplane to a full-stop on land is a landing, then shouldn't "a water landing" be called a "watering?" And shouldn't traps on a carrier be called a "Shipping" or "Boating?")
The bay isn't very deep where they touched down. The jet sat on its landing gear (on the bottom of the bay), with the cabin floor right about at sea-level!! Unfortunately, a couple of people drowned in the mayhem of emergency evacuating in the dark, in the water.
06-03-2009, 10:23 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 673
had this experience going into mansfield ohio, landing to the south, no working papi or vasi and at night i got the sudden feeling of coming up short and double checked field elevation on final ! felt like i flared into the dark abyss until the wheels finally plunked down.
ewfflyer - i definitely know about burke, esp on a moonless night, just making a base turn to final landing to the west or taking off west and making right traffic is tough, always took my students there to experience that need to use the AI even on a vfr night...im guessing you worked in the airnet barons that departed off to the dark north to det ! I flew up from beaver falls pa ccbc
ewfflyer - i definitely know about burke, esp on a moonless night, just making a base turn to final landing to the west or taking off west and making right traffic is tough, always took my students there to experience that need to use the AI even on a vfr night...im guessing you worked in the airnet barons that departed off to the dark north to det ! I flew up from beaver falls pa ccbc
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