The Career Span Of A Pilot (story)
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
[QUOTE]
You make it sound like these are mutually exclusive.
What if aviation was socialized and everyone maxed out at 65K would you still do it? Would it be worth all the moves, furloughs and missed holidays?
People make the military a career all the time and make about the same if not a little more depending on what rank you acheive.
So YOU can't make a living on $65K a year? I know those that can.
USMCFLYR
What if aviation was socialized and everyone maxed out at 65K would you still do it? Would it be worth all the moves, furloughs and missed holidays?
I love to fly but I need to make a living and to have room left over to make a life.
USMCFLYR
12-22-2008, 01:37 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Some pay up front by getting a grown up job and by striving for a grown up life while others want to play Peter Pan and remain a child forever. By trying to avoid the sacrifices of having a grown up life pilots often end up paying the most of all.
USMCFLYR
12-22-2008, 02:37 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,258
You are not the first to have these ideas and you will not be the last. However, the cubicle is not the end of life and in fact could be the path to having a real one. Everyone has sacrifices to make. Some pay up front by getting a grown up job and by striving for a grown up life while others want to play Peter Pan and remain a child forever. By trying to avoid the sacrifices of having a grown up life pilots often end up paying the most of all.
You most likely will get a firsthand dose of hardship since you are starting your career into a slowdown. Things will not be so easy for you. Regional jobs will be very hard to come by for a long while and upgrades most likely will be slow.
I am happy that you seem to be well briefed on the hardships of the profession however my suggestion is that you need more research. The flight deck is little more than a cubicle in the sky and there is much more suffering in aviation than just the first few years of low wages.
SkyHigh
You most likely will get a firsthand dose of hardship since you are starting your career into a slowdown. Things will not be so easy for you. Regional jobs will be very hard to come by for a long while and upgrades most likely will be slow.
I am happy that you seem to be well briefed on the hardships of the profession however my suggestion is that you need more research. The flight deck is little more than a cubicle in the sky and there is much more suffering in aviation than just the first few years of low wages.
SkyHigh
Yes, I am fairly well educated on this industry and the hardships it has to offer. I grew up around it and the hardships it took on my family. My Dad was never home for holidays for a long time, was always missing the important days, and was gone about 70% of my life. Still, I knew he is/was doing what he loves, and that's all that matters.
I don't look forward to the hardships this industry has in store, but I expect them. Many more years of them to come as well.
Have a great holiday season Sky!
12-22-2008, 05:47 PM
#54
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Usmcflyr
Yea I did say that civilian aviation is not a real job. In my humble opinion the cost of education, training and initial years of experience building is not worth the wages, sacrifices and career prospects that are available to most civilian pilots. Anyone who does an honest evaluation of their potential income versus the hardships and cost of entry would have a difficult time explaining their career choice to someone from the outside world.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
12-22-2008, 06:47 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Yea I did say that civilian aviation is not a real job. In my humble opinion the cost of education, training and initial years of experience building is not worth the wages, sacrifices and career prospects that are available to most civilian pilots. Anyone who does an honest evaluation of their potential income versus the hardships and cost of entry would have a difficult time explaining their career choice to someone from the outside world.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
PROFESSIONAL AVIATION ISN'T A REAL JOB!
Sky - I'm not talking about "the cost of education, training, and initial years of experience..." - I'm talking about you saying that a pilot - civilian or otherwise - who flies in around in the MOST UNFORGIVING of mediums and has lives at his fingertips does not have a REAL job.
So is being a professional pilot a REAL JOB for me then since I am coming out of the military and didn't have this inital cost of education, training, and inital years of experience (forgetting that I started in general aviation myself btw) at least in the way that you are portraying it? Is it only people coming up through the civilian ranks who don't deserve the title of a "professional pilot" with a real job?
This statement Sky is probably the worse thing that you have ever said in my time on this forum. Worse than the times that you called professional pilots "irresponsible" and stating that they could not possibly manage a family or love their children.
USMCFLYR
12-22-2008, 09:16 PM
#56
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
DID EVERYONE ELSE READ THIS??
PROFESSIONAL AVIATION ISN'T A REAL JOB!
Sky - I'm not talking about "the cost of education, training, and initial years of experience..." - I'm talking about you saying that a pilot - civilian or otherwise - who flies in around in the MOST UNFORGIVING of mediums and has lives at his fingertips does not have a REAL job.
So is being a professional pilot a REAL JOB for me then since I am coming out of the military and didn't have this inital cost of education, training, and inital years of experience (forgetting that I started in general aviation myself btw) at least in the way that you are portraying it? Is it only people coming up through the civilian ranks who don't deserve the title of a "professional pilot" with a real job?
This statement Sky is probably the worse thing that you have ever said in my time on this forum. Worse than the times that you called professional pilots "irresponsible" and stating that they could not possibly manage a family or love their children.
USMCFLYR
PROFESSIONAL AVIATION ISN'T A REAL JOB!
Sky - I'm not talking about "the cost of education, training, and initial years of experience..." - I'm talking about you saying that a pilot - civilian or otherwise - who flies in around in the MOST UNFORGIVING of mediums and has lives at his fingertips does not have a REAL job.
So is being a professional pilot a REAL JOB for me then since I am coming out of the military and didn't have this inital cost of education, training, and inital years of experience (forgetting that I started in general aviation myself btw) at least in the way that you are portraying it? Is it only people coming up through the civilian ranks who don't deserve the title of a "professional pilot" with a real job?
This statement Sky is probably the worse thing that you have ever said in my time on this forum. Worse than the times that you called professional pilots "irresponsible" and stating that they could not possibly manage a family or love their children.
USMCFLYR
I don't think that the daily feats of the average airline pilot are all that noteworthy. Airline pilots are manual programmable flowchart following organic computers. They are triggered to vomit up a series of rote memorized procedures created by engineers and standardization directors under a given set of circumstances. Airline pilots are spoon fed guidance from dispatch, ATC, maintenance control, crew scheduling and the lead FA. Airlines have been able to reduce the necessary skills of the typical line pilot into such a form that 300 hour wonders fresh from flight school to do the job.
The system harbors incompetence. Pilots do not have to be good or bad just good enough. As far as "the MOST UNFORGIVING of mediums and has lives at his fingertips" the same can be said of driving our national freeway system. In fact it probably take more concentration just driving to and from work.
I have written about this for years now.
I do not accept it as a real job since the compensation offered is not worthy of the investment required.
Skyhigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 12-22-2008 at 09:38 PM.
12-23-2008, 07:20 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
USMCFLYR,
I don't think that the daily feats of the average airline pilot are all that noteworthy. Airline pilots are manual programmable flowchart following organic computers. They are triggered to vomit up a series of rote memorized procedures created by engineers and standardization directors under a given set of circumstances. Airline pilots are spoon fed guidance from dispatch, ATC, maintenance control, crew scheduling and the lead FA. Airlines have been able to reduce the necessary skills of the typical line pilot into such a form that 300 hour wonders fresh from flight school to do the job.
The system harbors incompetence. Pilots do not have to be good or bad just good enough. As far as "the MOST UNFORGIVING of mediums and has lives at his fingertips" the same can be said of driving our national freeway system. In fact it probably take more concentration just driving to and from work.
I have written about this for years now.
I do not accept it as a real job since the compensation offered is not worthy of the investment required.
Skyhigh
I don't think that the daily feats of the average airline pilot are all that noteworthy. Airline pilots are manual programmable flowchart following organic computers. They are triggered to vomit up a series of rote memorized procedures created by engineers and standardization directors under a given set of circumstances. Airline pilots are spoon fed guidance from dispatch, ATC, maintenance control, crew scheduling and the lead FA. Airlines have been able to reduce the necessary skills of the typical line pilot into such a form that 300 hour wonders fresh from flight school to do the job.
The system harbors incompetence. Pilots do not have to be good or bad just good enough. As far as "the MOST UNFORGIVING of mediums and has lives at his fingertips" the same can be said of driving our national freeway system. In fact it probably take more concentration just driving to and from work.
I have written about this for years now.
I do not accept it as a real job since the compensation offered is not worthy of the investment required.
Skyhigh
As far as the road being as unforgiving as the skies...........you are wrong.
USMCFLYR
12-23-2008, 08:52 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Time to put a lid on it
Sky,
Your insults to airline pilots and their profession are repetitive and unpersuasive. Not everyone agrees that:
--Airliners should be flown like Alaskan bush planes.
--Improved technology degrades pilot skills.
--It is degrading to work as a First Officer.
--An "upper middle-class" lifestyle is necessary for happiness.
--Pilots are infantile, irresponsible, sociopathic, or neglectful of their families.
--Only jobs with "worthy compensation" in dollars are "real".
You made the right decision for yourself; now let others do the same in peace, unless you have some new information to offer.
Merry Christmas.
Your insults to airline pilots and their profession are repetitive and unpersuasive. Not everyone agrees that:
--Airliners should be flown like Alaskan bush planes.
--Improved technology degrades pilot skills.
--It is degrading to work as a First Officer.
--An "upper middle-class" lifestyle is necessary for happiness.
--Pilots are infantile, irresponsible, sociopathic, or neglectful of their families.
--Only jobs with "worthy compensation" in dollars are "real".
You made the right decision for yourself; now let others do the same in peace, unless you have some new information to offer.
Merry Christmas.
12-23-2008, 09:05 AM
#59
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
New Information?
To those who have known me now for a few years on this forum I may sound like a broken record however not more so than anyone else who visits this site and repeatedly states their case.
Everyday new people are on this site are asking the same questions. My answers might seem like old hat to many of you however it is new to those who have not yet been exposed to it.
SkyHigh
Everyday new people are on this site are asking the same questions. My answers might seem like old hat to many of you however it is new to those who have not yet been exposed to it.
SkyHigh
12-23-2008, 09:12 AM
#60
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Sky,
Your insults to airline pilots and their profession are repetitive and unpersuasive. Not everyone agrees that:
--Airliners should be flown like Alaskan bush planes.
--Improved technology degrades pilot skills.
--It is degrading to work as a First Officer.
--An "upper middle-class" lifestyle is necessary for happiness.
--Pilots are infantile, irresponsible, sociopathic, or neglectful of their families.
--Only jobs with "worthy compensation" in dollars are "real".
You made the right decision for yourself; now let others do the same in peace, unless you have some new information to offer.
Merry Christmas.
Your insults to airline pilots and their profession are repetitive and unpersuasive. Not everyone agrees that:
--Airliners should be flown like Alaskan bush planes.
--Improved technology degrades pilot skills.
--It is degrading to work as a First Officer.
--An "upper middle-class" lifestyle is necessary for happiness.
--Pilots are infantile, irresponsible, sociopathic, or neglectful of their families.
--Only jobs with "worthy compensation" in dollars are "real".
You made the right decision for yourself; now let others do the same in peace, unless you have some new information to offer.
Merry Christmas.
Wonder how that real estate mogul/handyman thing is working out?
YouTube - Family Guy - Stewie and Brian Novel
Happy Holidays to all.
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