The Career Span Of A Pilot (story)
12-22-2008, 07:16 AM
#41
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
opposition
I'm gonna have to agree with 152 and Broowski on this one as well. For as young as I am, (working on my Private atm), most of my young adult-hood has been spent working to pay off college, a car, and living expenses. My annual 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas have been spent working. I'm already used to it, and working at a store which pays less than $9.00 an hour for 30+ hours a week, makes flying regional look like stardom. Now I live in a ritzy part of town, and believe me when I say Ferrari's are a daily event, but it's all garbage to me. Now that's just my look on life. If you can't be happy with $50,000 a year, and if anyone thinks more money or another career will solve your problems, then you might want to rethink some things through. I always remind myself that flying is a privilege, not a right. I have pride after completing every flight, and I always will. I believe regional is a level that only some truly cherish for what it actually is. I know I will love it there.
People get into this profession when they are young and idealistic. We think that we will take the world by storm and supersede the lifestyle of our parents by avoiding the 9 to 5. Eventually most of us will reach a point in our lives when we do not wish to slay dragons anymore and are interested in starting a family and in living a more pedestrian life. By then however often we are neck deep in a lifestyle that doesn't fit and it is difficult to change.
SkyHigh
12-22-2008, 07:35 AM
#42
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
My guess is that most of my opposition on this topic is coming from young, unattached people who are without kids. I too had a different attitude before I had to leave sad little ones at home and before I had the major league bills that come with a family.
People get into this profession when they are young and idealistic. We think that we will take the world by storm and supersede the lifestyle of our parents by avoiding the 9 to 5. Eventually most of us will reach a point in our lives when we do not wish to slay dragons anymore and are interested in starting a family and in living a more pedestrian life. By then however often we are neck deep in a lifestyle that doesn't fit and it is difficult to change.
SkyHigh
People get into this profession when they are young and idealistic. We think that we will take the world by storm and supersede the lifestyle of our parents by avoiding the 9 to 5. Eventually most of us will reach a point in our lives when we do not wish to slay dragons anymore and are interested in starting a family and in living a more pedestrian life. By then however often we are neck deep in a lifestyle that doesn't fit and it is difficult to change.
SkyHigh
Heres the thing, I understand where you are coming from and I respect your views/opinions.
Story time
My father is 54 years old, in the printing business and is once again unemployed. He had my sister when he was 19 so he didn't have the time/support to do what he loved, he stumbled into a profession(he doesn't call it that, but I do) growing up I hardly saw him at all, weekends he was working, holidays he was working a press, come home, tired smelled like a printing press, ink everywhere,worked 18 hrs a day, had 3 jobs and he did all of this to barely put food on the table. The companies he worked for were always downsizing, firing, blah blah blah. As I grew older he got more into the "management" side and made a lot of cash at one point but was layed off when he least expected it. That was 10 years ago and it has been a nightmare for my poor Dad ever since. He always told me the saddest thing in his life, or the biggest regret was not pursuing something that interested him, even when he made a lot of money he hated going to work and was miserable, and the money is gone, but the misery of having to work in the printing business is with him every day of his life. My father was so happy for me when I got my airline job at Colgan because he was able to give me an opportunity that he never had. I used to complain and I knew he didn't want to hear it, and I don't blame him because the people he worked with, the bull**** he had to deal with was 10x worse then anything I have dealt with in this career.
The point of my rambling is its not just the airlines that have lay-offs and bulls*t, but at least its a CHOICE THAT I MADE, not something I was forced into.
Life is short and it is not fair, the sooner we realize that and stop thinking the world OWES us something the better off we will be.
I chose to stay (for now), you chose to leave we all have our reasons..........
Yes we have to pay a lot to get an airline job and the seniority system is skewed, starting over blows but it is what it is, its what encompasses being an airline pilot. The one thing I am learning is to never let EXPRESSJET, or any other airline be my sole financial income/source, in this day in age its irresponsible to do that, as well as expect your 401k, or social security to be enough for us to live off of when we retire
Last edited by JoeyMeatballs; 12-22-2008 at 07:42 AM.
12-22-2008, 07:53 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,258
My guess is that most of my opposition on this topic is coming from young, unattached people who are without kids. I too had a different attitude before I had to leave sad little ones at home and before I had the major league bills that come with a family.
People get into this profession when they are young and idealistic. We think that we will take the world by storm and supersede the lifestyle of our parents by avoiding the 9 to 5. Eventually most of us will reach a point in our lives when we do not wish to slay dragons anymore and are interested in starting a family and in living a more pedestrian life. By then however often we are neck deep in a lifestyle that doesn't fit and it is difficult to change.
SkyHigh
People get into this profession when they are young and idealistic. We think that we will take the world by storm and supersede the lifestyle of our parents by avoiding the 9 to 5. Eventually most of us will reach a point in our lives when we do not wish to slay dragons anymore and are interested in starting a family and in living a more pedestrian life. By then however often we are neck deep in a lifestyle that doesn't fit and it is difficult to change.
SkyHigh
The point of my rambling is its not just the airlines that have lay-offs and bulls*t, but at least its a CHOICE THAT I MADE, not something I was forced into.
Life is short and it is not fair, the sooner we realize that and stop thinking the world OWES us something the better off we will be.
I chose to stay (for now), you chose to leave we all have our reasons..........
Yes we have to pay a lot to get an airline job and the seniority system is skewed, starting over blows but it is what it is...........
Life is short and it is not fair, the sooner we realize that and stop thinking the world OWES us something the better off we will be.
I chose to stay (for now), you chose to leave we all have our reasons..........
Yes we have to pay a lot to get an airline job and the seniority system is skewed, starting over blows but it is what it is...........
For others who know a lot about the industry and are warned up and down the dangers and hardships that come right along with it, still choose to do it because they know they would rather suffer through the first few years of horrible pay and low seniority. It's all about the choices we make in life and where we want those choices to take us with the knowledge we have to back it up with. Eventually, for those of us who choose to stay in this industry and suffer through the hardships together, we will be with the company we've only dreamed of flying with and hopefully be there for 30+ years and know that we did exactly what we had set out to do in life!
Life is what you make it to be.
12-22-2008, 08:03 AM
#44
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
The World owe us?
Skyhigh
Heres the thing, I understand where you are coming from and I respect your views/opinions.
Story time
My father is 54 years old, in the printing business and is once again unemployed. He had my sister when he was 19 so he didn't have the time/support to do what he loved, he stumbled into a profession(he doesn't call it that, but I do) growing up I hardly saw him at all, weekends he was working, holidays he was working a press, come home, tired smelled like a printing press, ink everywhere,worked 18 hrs a day, had 3 jobs and he did all of this to barely put food on the table. The companies he worked for were always downsizing, firing, blah blah blah. As I grew older he got more into the "management" side and made a lot of cash at one point but was layed off when he least expected it. That was 10 years ago and it has been a nightmare for my poor Dad ever since. He always told me the saddest thing in his life, or the biggest regret was not pursuing something that interested him, even when he made a lot of money he hated going to work and was miserable, and the money is gone, but the misery of having to work in the printing business is with him every day of his life. My father was so happy for me when I got my airline job at Colgan because he was able to give me an opportunity that he never had. I used to complain and I knew he didn't want to hear it, and I don't blame him because the people he worked with, the bull**** he had to deal with was 10x worse then anything I have dealt with in this career.
The point of my rambling is its not just the airlines that have lay-offs and bulls*t, but at least its a CHOICE THAT I MADE, not something I was forced into.
Life is short and it is not fair, the sooner we realize that and stop thinking the world OWES us something the better off we will be.
I chose to stay (for now), you chose to leave we all have our reasons..........
Yes we have to pay a lot to get an airline job and the seniority system is skewed, starting over blows but it is what it is...........
Heres the thing, I understand where you are coming from and I respect your views/opinions.
Story time
My father is 54 years old, in the printing business and is once again unemployed. He had my sister when he was 19 so he didn't have the time/support to do what he loved, he stumbled into a profession(he doesn't call it that, but I do) growing up I hardly saw him at all, weekends he was working, holidays he was working a press, come home, tired smelled like a printing press, ink everywhere,worked 18 hrs a day, had 3 jobs and he did all of this to barely put food on the table. The companies he worked for were always downsizing, firing, blah blah blah. As I grew older he got more into the "management" side and made a lot of cash at one point but was layed off when he least expected it. That was 10 years ago and it has been a nightmare for my poor Dad ever since. He always told me the saddest thing in his life, or the biggest regret was not pursuing something that interested him, even when he made a lot of money he hated going to work and was miserable, and the money is gone, but the misery of having to work in the printing business is with him every day of his life. My father was so happy for me when I got my airline job at Colgan because he was able to give me an opportunity that he never had. I used to complain and I knew he didn't want to hear it, and I don't blame him because the people he worked with, the bull**** he had to deal with was 10x worse then anything I have dealt with in this career.
The point of my rambling is its not just the airlines that have lay-offs and bulls*t, but at least its a CHOICE THAT I MADE, not something I was forced into.
Life is short and it is not fair, the sooner we realize that and stop thinking the world OWES us something the better off we will be.
I chose to stay (for now), you chose to leave we all have our reasons..........
Yes we have to pay a lot to get an airline job and the seniority system is skewed, starting over blows but it is what it is...........
Life is short and very unfair. You may have been able to choose your burden however it is debatable whether you have found a better path or not. Not everyone has to slave away at a miserable job and not every job is crummy. All I am saying is that there is a better life out there.
Often people do not know if they have made the right choices in life until they are looking back. It is a large part of what this thread is about. It sounds to me like your father was faced with some difficult decisions when he was very young and made the right choices.
Pilots seem to think that they can get something for nothing. By playing airline pilot somehow we can skip the hardships that others face however there is a huge price that comes along with it. In my opinion by trying to avoid getting a real job pilots end up paying the most of all.
Life owes us nothing but doesn't mean that we should not be advocates for ourselves. I was faced with a difficult decision a few years ago and choose to look out for my family. It is impossible to go through life without regrets. I would much rather look back at a lost flying dream than to have virtually abandoned my family by sticking with it. There is a price for everything in life. What has value to you? What is worth sacrificing for?
SKyHigh
12-22-2008, 08:16 AM
#45
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Dire Straights
SkyHigh, I certainly respect your ideas and viewpoints as well as SAABs, as they are both very legit. We all make choices though, as SAAB stated. There are some of us that just don't know the reality of this industry and are blinded by the fact that we simply want to do what we love, no matter the cost. Then, life comes back and slaps you across the face when you get that first paycheck on first year FO salary. At that point you start to wonder "oh man, what did I get myself into?" The young idealist pilot wants to avoid the 9-5 at all costs because he would rather get paid nothing to do what he loves than sit in a cubicle for 8 hours a day and do something that makes him want to die. Then, the reality sets in and he has to make a choice to continue his career choice, or leave to do something else. I know several people at my company who have chosen to leave to pursue other things because the life style of a pilot just wasn't for them.
For others who know a lot about the industry and are warned up and down the dangers and hardships that come right along with it, still choose to do it because they know they would rather suffer through the first few years of horrible pay and low seniority. It's all about the choices we make in life and where we want those choices to take us with the knowledge we have to back it up with. Eventually, for those of us who choose to stay in this industry and suffer through the hardships together, we will be with the company we've only dreamed of flying with and hopefully be there for 30+ years and know that we did exactly what we had set out to do in life!
Life is what you make it to be.
For others who know a lot about the industry and are warned up and down the dangers and hardships that come right along with it, still choose to do it because they know they would rather suffer through the first few years of horrible pay and low seniority. It's all about the choices we make in life and where we want those choices to take us with the knowledge we have to back it up with. Eventually, for those of us who choose to stay in this industry and suffer through the hardships together, we will be with the company we've only dreamed of flying with and hopefully be there for 30+ years and know that we did exactly what we had set out to do in life!
Life is what you make it to be.
You most likely will get a firsthand dose of hardship since you are starting your career into a slowdown. Things will not be so easy for you. Regional jobs will be very hard to come by for a long while and upgrades most likely will be slow.
I am happy that you seem to be well briefed on the hardships of the profession however my suggestion is that you need more research. The flight deck is little more than a cubicle in the sky and there is much more suffering in aviation than just the first few years of low wages.
SkyHigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 12-22-2008 at 09:05 AM.
12-22-2008, 08:39 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,814
He wonders why he spent all those hours as a young man practicing chandelles, s-turns, and lazy-eights when he doesn't touch the controls but to taxi, and take off.
12-22-2008, 09:10 AM
#47
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Sky
You seem to be missing something, not EVERYONE has it so miserable at the airlines, I made $53,000 on 2nd year pay at Expressjet, I dont work weekends, and I dont really do too many overnights, I know if and when I upgrade I will be doing overnights over weekends, but the trade off is higher pay and TPIC, then if I am ever lucky enough to go to a major, well the destinations different, the pay his higher and one day I will hold weekends off, I don't have a problem working in an office environment, and I do have a GROWN UP job, and I like it.....
now I am off to do an MCI turn then I am done flying for the year
<-----not so bad 
You seem to be missing something, not EVERYONE has it so miserable at the airlines, I made $53,000 on 2nd year pay at Expressjet, I dont work weekends, and I dont really do too many overnights, I know if and when I upgrade I will be doing overnights over weekends, but the trade off is higher pay and TPIC, then if I am ever lucky enough to go to a major, well the destinations different, the pay his higher and one day I will hold weekends off, I don't have a problem working in an office environment, and I do have a GROWN UP job, and I like it.....
now I am off to do an MCI turn then I am done flying for the year
<-----not so bad
12-22-2008, 11:13 AM
#48
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Things Change
Sky
You seem to be missing something, not EVERYONE has it so miserable at the airlines, I made $53,000 on 2nd year pay at Expressjet, I dont work weekends, and I dont really do too many overnights, I know if and when I upgrade I will be doing overnights over weekends, but the trade off is higher pay and TPIC, then if I am ever lucky enough to go to a major, well the destinations different, the pay his higher and one day I will hold weekends off, I don't have a problem working in an office environment, and I do have a GROWN UP job, and I like it.....
now I am off to do an MCI turn then I am done flying for the year <-----not so bad
You seem to be missing something, not EVERYONE has it so miserable at the airlines, I made $53,000 on 2nd year pay at Expressjet, I dont work weekends, and I dont really do too many overnights, I know if and when I upgrade I will be doing overnights over weekends, but the trade off is higher pay and TPIC, then if I am ever lucky enough to go to a major, well the destinations different, the pay his higher and one day I will hold weekends off, I don't have a problem working in an office environment, and I do have a GROWN UP job, and I like it.....
now I am off to do an MCI turn then I am done flying for the year
<-----not so bad In aviation nothing stays the same. People don't either. I hope that you find what you are looking for however it seems to me that you already have been thinking about the possibility of making a change.
Have a nice trip.
SkyHigh
12-22-2008, 01:17 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
[QUOTE]
Stage one- Dreamer
On airline flights, he admires the uniformed pilots marching confidently to their sleek, shiny jets about to zip off to who knows where on who knows what adventure. During stage one, our pilot-in-embryo may frequently refer to himself as 'Goose,' or 'Iceman.' He looks up every time an airplane flies overhead and says "I wish I were him!" The more he learns about aviation, the more his excitement builds, and he begins to search for flight schools.
OH! I remeber this stage. It was puncuated by movies like 'Flying Leathernecks' and 'The Final Countdown'!
Oh yeah - spot on except for the part I deleted and the part I added.
Well...this is my current stage and it is certainly eye opening!
I look forward to the road ahead with anticipation and a little bit of desperation!
USMCFLYR
Stage one- Dreamer
On airline flights, he admires the uniformed pilots marching confidently to their sleek, shiny jets about to zip off to who knows where on who knows what adventure. During stage one, our pilot-in-embryo may frequently refer to himself as 'Goose,' or 'Iceman.' He looks up every time an airplane flies overhead and says "I wish I were him!" The more he learns about aviation, the more his excitement builds, and he begins to search for flight schools.
Stage two- Student Pilot
Our future pilot finds a flight school, makes a plan, and gets started with an instructor. He absolutely loves his first flight. [BUT THE SECOND HE GOT TERRIBLY SICK ON AND THREW UP ON THE INSTRUCTOR!]He feels the aviation drug kick in and he's absolutely hooked. He accomplishes all of his homework assignments and eagerly awaits the next flight lesson. He makes some friends down at the local FBO and quickly becomes an airport junkie. He tells all his friends about how he soloed an airplane on his own. The student pilot stage continues well after he earns his private pilot certificate, which fuels his passion for aviation, and through his instrument rating.
Our future pilot finds a flight school, makes a plan, and gets started with an instructor. He absolutely loves his first flight. [BUT THE SECOND HE GOT TERRIBLY SICK ON AND THREW UP ON THE INSTRUCTOR!]He feels the aviation drug kick in and he's absolutely hooked. He accomplishes all of his homework assignments and eagerly awaits the next flight lesson. He makes some friends down at the local FBO and quickly becomes an airport junkie. He tells all his friends about how he soloed an airplane on his own. The student pilot stage continues well after he earns his private pilot certificate, which fuels his passion for aviation, and through his instrument rating.
Stage three-Commercial Naivete
This is about the time when the pilot begins to search the internet for pilot job listings. He looks at the corporate jobs, He also begins to read forum threads from disgruntled airline pilots complaining of such things that he has never heard of before during his pilot training like furlough, scab, union dues, and upgrade time. The blinders slowly begin to come off his eyes and for the first time he gets exposed to some of the real-life hardships that airline pilots face on a daily basis. 'Gosh', he thinks, 'airline pilots are all so negative! Nothing could ever get me to not want to fly. These guys are all just a bunch of whiners, I'll never be like them.'
This is about the time when the pilot begins to search the internet for pilot job listings. He looks at the corporate jobs, He also begins to read forum threads from disgruntled airline pilots complaining of such things that he has never heard of before during his pilot training like furlough, scab, union dues, and upgrade time. The blinders slowly begin to come off his eyes and for the first time he gets exposed to some of the real-life hardships that airline pilots face on a daily basis. 'Gosh', he thinks, 'airline pilots are all so negative! Nothing could ever get me to not want to fly. These guys are all just a bunch of whiners, I'll never be like them.'
I look forward to the road ahead with anticipation and a little bit of desperation!
USMCFLYR
12-22-2008, 01:21 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
Also it is difficult to transition to another profession with the skills accumulated as a pilot.
Good to see you back Sky.
USMCFLYR
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