The Career Span Of A Pilot (story)
12-26-2008, 12:08 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
?
This is not Kilgore Trout.
Nor is this.
This is Kilgore Trout. Kilgore Trout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nor is this.
This is Kilgore Trout. Kilgore Trout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
12-26-2008, 12:17 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
If National had been successful and you were pulling down 100K plus as a Capt there today, would you still be gracing us with your presence here? Would you consider the career not worthy and steer people away? Would the job of a 757 Capt be nothing more than a button pushing, coddled by dispatch, boring existence, that you would tell everyone within earshot you abhor and disrespect? DE727UPS
I was not all that happy with my situation even before National shut down. I was in my mid 30's and making 30K per year as a 757 FO. The president of the company came into my ground school on the first day and told us all that no pilot would ever earn more than 80K at N7. However if they were still afloat I most likely would still be working for them. I was hooked on aviation, an addict. I just could not let go like that.
Even if I would have reached my ultimate career goal of Alaska Airlines I do not think that I could recommend the profession. It is just too mcuh risk and requires to huge of an investment to be worthwhile unless you were assured of reaching FedEx, UPS or SWA.
Additionally, if I was still flying for a living I doubt that I would venture on APC. As a full time pilot the last thing I wanted to do was to expose myself to more aviation on my days off.
SkyHigh
I was not all that happy with my situation even before National shut down. I was in my mid 30's and making 30K per year as a 757 FO. The president of the company came into my ground school on the first day and told us all that no pilot would ever earn more than 80K at N7. However if they were still afloat I most likely would still be working for them. I was hooked on aviation, an addict. I just could not let go like that.
Even if I would have reached my ultimate career goal of Alaska Airlines I do not think that I could recommend the profession. It is just too mcuh risk and requires to huge of an investment to be worthwhile unless you were assured of reaching FedEx, UPS or SWA.
Additionally, if I was still flying for a living I doubt that I would venture on APC. As a full time pilot the last thing I wanted to do was to expose myself to more aviation on my days off.
SkyHigh
I've said it before sky, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Glad you found something you enjoy doing. I know plenty of miserable people in real estate and home improvement. You can't win them all and you really need to realize that there are some of us that enjoy where we are. That idea seem so unfathomable to you that you have to come on here and rationalize your decisions by insulting the rest of us. It doesn't work.
Hell, I've been furloughed for the past three months and can't wait to go back despite having a job that pays better. Oh, and that whole "pilots not finding work out of the cockpit" is BS. I had seven interviews and received six job offers outside aviation before my furlough date.
12-26-2008, 12:57 PM
#103
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Practice what you preach.
And you went there? It sounds like you were exactly the person that you preach against today.
I've said it before sky, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Glad you found something you enjoy doing. I know plenty of miserable people in real estate and home improvement. You can't win them all and you really need to realize that there are some of us that enjoy where we are. That idea seem so unfathomable to you that you have to come on here and rationalize your decisions by insulting the rest of us. It doesn't work.
Hell, I've been furloughed for the past three months and can't wait to go back despite having a job that pays better. Oh, and that whole "pilots not finding work out of the cockpit" is BS. I had seven interviews and received six job offers outside aviation before my furlough date.
I've said it before sky, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Glad you found something you enjoy doing. I know plenty of miserable people in real estate and home improvement. You can't win them all and you really need to realize that there are some of us that enjoy where we are. That idea seem so unfathomable to you that you have to come on here and rationalize your decisions by insulting the rest of us. It doesn't work.
Hell, I've been furloughed for the past three months and can't wait to go back despite having a job that pays better. Oh, and that whole "pilots not finding work out of the cockpit" is BS. I had seven interviews and received six job offers outside aviation before my furlough date.
I am glad that you were able to get several interviews outside of aviation. It isn't exactly true that you can not find jobs outside of aviation. The challenge is to find jobs that are capable of supporting a family on what the jobs pay.
After I was laid off from flying I too got a few offers. I could have stocked shelves at Home Depot or manned a gas station. The trick is trying to find a job that offers wages and benefits suitable of supporting a middle class family. Most other professions build on common skills and transferable experiences. As we get older it becomes harder to accept starting wage jobs. Others are able to jump between several different industries and are able to take their status with them.
As a laid off new hire regional FO finding a replacement job is not all that difficult. Trying to use a lifetime of aviation experience to find a job that is equivalent to the needs of a middle aged person is not so easy. Choices are usually either starting over a the bottom rung of a new industry or going back to school and then starting over. Neither of those choices are much fun.
SkyHigh
12-26-2008, 01:37 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Actually, a couple of the positions paid significantly better with room for advancement. That's why I didn't put my eggs in one basket (second BS in college, worked outside aviation for a couple years before instructing) and the amazing thing is my aviation background is what got me a couple of the interviews and also was the focal point of the interview. You'd really be amazed at how many issues we deal with every day in aviation are transferable to the "real" world. I took the easy job that just paid the bills because I didn't feel like doing anything else and I knew this was going to be short lived. In the mean time I've done a lot of hunting and enjoyed being home for the Holidays. I also appreciate what I'm missing from the airlines. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I actually enjoy overnights in small Midwestern towns and 3 hour sits at ORD.
Maybe it's because I'm from a blue-collar family and I live in an area with the lowest cost of living in the country, I don't see how it's hard to make a comfortable living. Plenty of my neighbors do just that with families, mortgages, etc on $60k per year.
As others have said it's not the message, it's the delivery. You act like the negatives are common only to aviation which is far from true. I also think there's a lot of resentment about those who have had a successful career or are happy.
To each their own. Quit criticizing those that like this.
Maybe it's because I'm from a blue-collar family and I live in an area with the lowest cost of living in the country, I don't see how it's hard to make a comfortable living. Plenty of my neighbors do just that with families, mortgages, etc on $60k per year.
As others have said it's not the message, it's the delivery. You act like the negatives are common only to aviation which is far from true. I also think there's a lot of resentment about those who have had a successful career or are happy.
To each their own. Quit criticizing those that like this.
12-26-2008, 02:16 PM
#105
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Aviation is diffrent.
Aviation is different from most other professions.
No one crawls under a house to fix a broken sewer pipe for free. Garbage men do not pick up trash on their days off as a hobby. Flying is different from most every other job in the fact that the work function itself has value. People will do it for free. Pilots can become obsessed and willing to do whatever to remain in the saddle.
Aviation careers are not like most other professions. Garbage men show up to work because the compensation makes it worth it to them. Pilots do it because they love to fly. As a result pilots are paid for what they will do and not for what they can do. Once I figured that out I was never very comfortable in my chosen profession since I knew that there are things in my life that are more important to me.
SkyHigh
No one crawls under a house to fix a broken sewer pipe for free. Garbage men do not pick up trash on their days off as a hobby. Flying is different from most every other job in the fact that the work function itself has value. People will do it for free. Pilots can become obsessed and willing to do whatever to remain in the saddle.
Aviation careers are not like most other professions. Garbage men show up to work because the compensation makes it worth it to them. Pilots do it because they love to fly. As a result pilots are paid for what they will do and not for what they can do. Once I figured that out I was never very comfortable in my chosen profession since I knew that there are things in my life that are more important to me.
SkyHigh
12-26-2008, 02:24 PM
#106
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Not surprising
Actually, a couple of the positions paid significantly better with room for advancement. That's why I didn't put my eggs in one basket (second BS in college, worked outside aviation for a couple years before instructing) and the amazing thing is my aviation background is what got me a couple of the interviews and also was the focal point of the interview. You'd really be amazed at how many issues we deal with every day in aviation are transferable to the "real" world. I took the easy job that just paid the bills because I didn't feel like doing anything else and I knew this was going to be short lived. In the mean time I've done a lot of hunting and enjoyed being home for the Holidays. I also appreciate what I'm missing from the airlines. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I actually enjoy overnights in small Midwestern towns and 3 hour sits at ORD.
Maybe it's because I'm from a blue-collar family and I live in an area with the lowest cost of living in the country, I don't see how it's hard to make a comfortable living. Plenty of my neighbors do just that with families, mortgages, etc on $60k per year.
As others have said it's not the message, it's the delivery. You act like the negatives are common only to aviation which is far from true. I also think there's a lot of resentment about those who have had a successful career or are happy.
To each their own. Quit criticizing those that like this.
Maybe it's because I'm from a blue-collar family and I live in an area with the lowest cost of living in the country, I don't see how it's hard to make a comfortable living. Plenty of my neighbors do just that with families, mortgages, etc on $60k per year.
As others have said it's not the message, it's the delivery. You act like the negatives are common only to aviation which is far from true. I also think there's a lot of resentment about those who have had a successful career or are happy.
To each their own. Quit criticizing those that like this.
Some places are much cheaper than where I live and it all depends upon your personal definition of being able to adequately provide for your family. As for myself I never wanted it to be a point of question on whether I made enough to make it or not. It wasn't and still is in not acceptable to just barely get by. To me my investment in college, flight school and early years of experience building is worth much more than what the neighborhood mailman takes home.
I am not trying to criticize anyone. Just trying to get people to think about a few things.
Skyhigh
12-26-2008, 02:53 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Livin' the dream
Posts: 626
I do appreciate APCF's forums, and all the viewpoints from the broad spectrum of aviators out there. Found this site not too long ago when I was researching the likelihood of going from AK 135 stuff to something different.
Learned that I've got it pretty good doing the AK stuff. Comparing my QOL with many I've read about on here makes me pretty humbled and thankful.
I would like to try something different someday though. Maybe a bit faster and higher.
I think much of the conflict on threads like this comes from very subjective stuff. Obviously a young single pilot will often have different concerns than an older one with a family. There's lots of similarities though. We all want to do a good job, for a good company, be somewhat financially secure, and spend a fair and reasonable amount of time with our friends and loved ones.
The thing about APCF that can be a drag is the conflict between pilots who have adopted a "been there done that, the view outside is nothin' special now" and the pilots who, new or old, "love doing what they love to do". Someone earlier posted about the 70% silent majority viewing these boards. I think many of us feel a wide range of feelings about what we've gotten into and how it has, and will affect our lives. Hopefully more positives than negatives in the long run. Heck, some days flying a Beaver on floats in Alaska was pretty boring and repetitive. Had to remind myself what I was getting to do. Lots of worries about financial stuff and longevity in the biz too.
Hopefully we can all agree not to be too nasty to each other, watch each others backs, and learn from others experiences and troubles in life. This stuff is valuable.
I respect all opinions I read on here, however different they may be from mine.
Thank you,
12-26-2008, 04:01 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"I am not trying to criticize anyone. Just trying to get people to think about a few things."
Hummm....coulda fooled me.....
"I do think that airline pilots today are little more than programmable humans who conduct a flight by following a highly scripted and choreographed series of rote memorized procedures and actions. They are manual driven flow chart following automatons who carry out the direction and decisions of others." Skyhigh 11/19/08
"Regional pilots get paid what they are worth. Modern automated planes do not need experienced flight crews anymore." Skyhigh 11/30/08
"whenever I do encounter aviation college students they all seem to be depressed. Past generations of pilots were always arrogant punks. Now they all walk around with their heads pointed to the ground and mumble when they talk." Skyhigh 9/30/08
"I am not trying to criticize anyone. Just trying to get people to think about a few things." Skyhigh Today
Good stuff Sky.
Hummm....coulda fooled me.....
"I do think that airline pilots today are little more than programmable humans who conduct a flight by following a highly scripted and choreographed series of rote memorized procedures and actions. They are manual driven flow chart following automatons who carry out the direction and decisions of others." Skyhigh 11/19/08
"Regional pilots get paid what they are worth. Modern automated planes do not need experienced flight crews anymore." Skyhigh 11/30/08
"whenever I do encounter aviation college students they all seem to be depressed. Past generations of pilots were always arrogant punks. Now they all walk around with their heads pointed to the ground and mumble when they talk." Skyhigh 9/30/08
"I am not trying to criticize anyone. Just trying to get people to think about a few things." Skyhigh Today
Good stuff Sky.
12-26-2008, 07:31 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: NU Guy
Posts: 437
Sky I enjoy your posts much can be learned from the experiences of others. Whether that means you hang it up altogether or simply try a different angle. I'm still sticking with it and I take no offense to your comments. Gotta hand it to ups on that last one though.
When are you going to write a book?
When are you going to write a book?
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