Tech Maven

Exactly.

There's a reason The Big 3 are going down (notice how Toyota, BMW, Hyundai, etc. aren't asking for help?)-- their products suck compared to their Japanese, Korean, and German counterparts. Just look at resale values, satisfaction after 5 years of ownership, and other metrics and you'll see that Detroit lags across the board, with few exceptions.

The market will always be brutal for Detroit until they start marking better quality and better designed cars.

HSLD

There was an interesting stat thrown around tonight on the news:

Alabama has provided more in tax break subsidy to Toyota than all of the big 3 requests combined. It looks like the reason Toyota isn't asking for a handout is they've already gotten one.

Cubdriver

All automakers sales are pretty far down right now. Toyota is offering bargain basement financing to try and stimulate the few people who are on the fence to go ahead and spring.

As far as car versus truck, it's not that simple. Going by Consumer Reports data, you can find reliable models sprinkled through all the domestic manufacturers, and you can find unreliable ones as well. Overall though, if you look at CR's best choices list almost all are Japanese (or domestically made Japanese) cars. A sparse few are American on that list.

You can still find a "good" American car and trucks if you look though. A few that come to mind from the list are full size Ford/ Lincoln/ Mercury cars, and certain Ford and Chevy pickup trucks (not all).

jungle

Interesting point. It has become obvious to most economists that high rates of corporate taxation are a sure way to make sure business stays out of your state and country. Looking at the state rates of corporate taxation, and the willingness of some states to lower those rates to gain overall tax revenue will show you why the doors are closing on the big three.

Corporate taxes are always paid by the consumer, tend to make products more expensive, drive business out and amount to a double taxation on the consumer.

Reducing corporate tax to zero on both the state and federal level would attract huge amounts of investment to the US and be more than made up for by increased income tax revenue.

Currently, the US and Japan have the highest rates of corporate taxation in the world.

The big picture is this: The big three and the airlines have pumped far more money into the government than the government has pumped into them.

wmupilot85

If you were to follow world news, you would see that Toyota, BMW, Merc, VW and others are asking for bailouts from the Japanese government and German government. Big 3 vehicles are in standards, but people feel that they aren't.

A local group did a study. They took 2 of the same cars, both from the big 3. Took all names off, and covered the interior main parts and exterior with camo. They then let people drive them around for a little bit, and asked them what they though. Before they asked, they told them that one was a domestic auto, and one was a Japanese auto. Most of the people picked the vehicle that they thought was the Japanese model to be of a suprior build quality and much better overall, when in fact, they were both the same vehicle from one of the big 3.

And just to add in, 182,000 miles on my 2001 Trailblazer and it runs as great as day 1. Only issue is a worn clutch in the 4x4 system, which I never expect any true clutch (not automatic transmission style, but regular push/manual transmission style) to last over 100,000 miles of use. Easy, cheap repair to do. Other than that, truck runs great, starts every time, idles smooth, drives smooth, and gets great gas milage. I've gotta over 30 mpg on the expressway with it before.

I also have a 1989 302 Mustang. Granted I have done some modifications to the engine and transmission, I am still using the stock short block, with spinning 7000 RPM's numerous times, and beating on it all the time. It still holds together strong, holds oil pressure, gets almost 30 mpg on the expressway and runs a mid 12 in the 1/4 mile all motor.

HSLD

Very true, imagine the potential shortfall in federal revenue if either of these industries were allowed to wither and die due to "tough love" market forces.

Ottopilot

First of all, I would never buy a "new" car from anyone. I always buy slightly used.

Second, I used to wave the American flag and only buy US autos. It took me awhile to learn my lesson, but I'll never buy American again. I've owned one or more from each of the big US makers. I know they've done better and there are always exceptions, but due to my experience I'm not going back. Even my experience with the dealers of domestic vs. foreign is enough to keep me away.

My last purchase was a Toyota made in America by union workers. The quality is so much better. I'm up to 150,000+ miles with no issues and I don't see a reason it won't go to 300,000 without a problem.

The US automakers put themselves in this position and they should have to deal with the results- without my tax payer money. If they want me to bail them out, I want a car in return.

FlyBoyd

See this The Cars.com American-Made Index - Cars.com
and this A Closer Look at Domestic-Parts Content - Cars.com

"Import " cars (depending on model) often feed our economy too.

hotshot

The sticker on my Subaru says it was made in zero landfill plant in Indiana.

To be honest though, I really don't care where the car is made. As long as OJ is making the license plates, I'll be happy.

jumppilot03

[QUOTE=wmupilot85;516368] I've gotta over 30 mpg on the expressway with it before.



I have gotta call BS on that statement. 30 mpg with a 4x4 trailblazer? I can hardly get that with a V6 Camry.