Thedude

Well, if you blocked out knowing you are over weight and did not plan to burn the required weight in fuel and it is not documented on the release. I think you might just be primed for a violation. Doh

calcapt

The short answer is there would be no difference in weight. I can get into the technical aspects if anybody is interested but some of the physics of the answer have already been hit on in this post. Thanks for the discussions!

avengre

Dang conservation of Energy law

Heres another question for ya, if your in flight, and all of them took off... Does the plane experience additional load factor?

calcapt

Absolutely! If you were standing on a scale and decided to jump into the air, the scale would show an increased weight as you pushed off - same concept.
Remember that lift is equal to gravity only in a state when the bird or aircraft is not climbing or descending. As the birds are ascending the lift value would be greater than gravity thereby increasing the downward weight if you choose to think of it that way. Likewise, If the birds were to dive for the floor, the weight on the aircraft would decrease for those moments. Anytime the bird is not in the seat or in level flight, the actual weight of the aircraft will vary with what the birds are doing. Try to plug those numbers into your weight and balance graph.

flyerNy

What if it is a nonpressurized A/C with windows open?

calcapt

You are onto something there as the dynamics could certainly change. Pressurization, or no pressurization is not so much an issue but the windows could be. In a closed environment, the concept is easier to understand. The center of the force of lift is 90 degrees to the axis of the item producing the lift and is applied 180 degrees wide; therefore, if the bird was positioned in the cabin to where the lift forces were applied to where the windows were located then some of those forces would in fact have no affect on the weight of the airplane. But, the bird would have to produce more lift in this case to keep from descending which would apply more force (weight) the the aircraft. When I was getting my MS in physics we used to discuss and experiment with these types of concepts regularly. It is surprising how so much of what we believe to be true is not. An open window with the aircraft moving would also create issues relating to pressure - but that's another discussion. Perhaps it would be easier to leave the birds behind???

Skyranger777

WOW first time in a long time I have read a thread and actually feel as though I have learned something!

OldAg84

calcapt- you must be hell at cocktail parties!

"another gin and tonic please, note how the lime forms a fulcrum with the point being approximately...."

Which catering company left the dang door open so the birds could get in there anyways?

calcapt

I can assure you that I am not the smart techie type. In fact I would bet that most who know me think I am quite the opposite. I was just a little sick of all the doom and gloom on the forum these days and thought I would throw something new out. By the way, a fulcrum is not formed it is established...

OldAg84

Alright- a little fun back at me!