The Capt is always right ?
05-02-2008, 12:48 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: B767A[ret.]
Posts: 593
The Capt is always right ?
Got this in a forwarded email. Cannot vouch for its veracity, but sounds plausible. There were no accompanying pictures. I assume it happened this year, although that information is also missing. Anyone else heard anything?
Subject: AA flight You Won't Believe This!!!
Message 1:
This is from 48 on 4-20 departing DFW, arriving the a.m. in CDG on
4-21. These pics are from one of the four flight
crew I know from that flight. Funny the NS was pulled not to long
after landing in CDG!! About 10 to 14 minutes after TO, the crew in
the back felt a very strong vibration from underneath, notified the
cockpit and about six minutes or so later the crew in the back along
with the paxs, heard a loud explosion. Cockpit was notified and
apparently, the Capt. deemed it not worth returning to DFW and
continued onto CDG and well, surprise surprise in CDG!!!!!!! 99.999
% of the cockpit's we all fly with and are friends with would have
gone back in a heart beat and never questioned it, but this MIA
based Capt. decided that the eyes and ears of this cabin crew were
not reliable enough. Sad!!!
Happy trails everyone!!!!
Follow up message:
Dear Tom,
I am writing to you regarding Capt **********- #****** .He was my
Capt on flight 48 on 4-20-08 out of DFW. A few minutes after
takeoff(around
10,000 ft)we heard a loud, shaking noise coming from the belly of
the plane. I was sitting in my jumpseat in the mid galley and it
sounded like an explosion or very loud landing gear being ripped and
strong shaking. All the flight attendants heard and felt this,even
in the coach cabin.
The #4 called the #1 who was on the phone with the Capt and she told
him what we heard and felt. He called dispatch and between our call
and his to dispatch , he decided it was "most likely" an inside
cargo door that was left open, therefore allowing bags to shift. So
he made the decision to fly the 10 hrs to Paris without going back
to DFW to even check out what the noise was, where it came from,etc.
A lot of the flight attendants said they had heard an inside cargo
door sound before and thought it was similar. I for one have never
heard that so I didn't know what to think except to me it did not
sound good, nor normal. The flight was unusually hot and a little
shaky from time to time.
When we landed in CDG, the mechanics rushed on the plane and into
the cockpit. Apparently the tower had called (at least from what I
understood)and said that an AA flight was landing with a hole in the
belly. Yes a hole. The door to the pack had been ripped off and hit /
damaged the belly going AFT cracking, puncturing holes all along.
I know this since we all went and looked at it and took pix on our
cell phones. So over Dallas there were parts of our plane flying off.
This is a huge area, as you know. The mechanics couldn't believe we
made it there and were not hurt. The plane was put out of service
and a pro was flown in from Dallas the next day to look at the plane.
The Capt merely made a remark that maybe he should have questioned
all of us to see what we had felt or heard. I am not a pilot but I
can't imagine making a decision to go and not find out what that
loud shaking noise was after takeoff. We were still in the DFW area
and could have flown by the tower(for them to look)or returned to
the airport.
Honestly I felt like my life was in jeopardy by his decision. I
personally do not want to fly with him again. He is based in Miami
so the chances are slim, since I am in Dallas but I don't feel safe
with a Capt that makes that decision and puts our safety at risk,
along with his own.
I feel he should be suspended or reprimanded for putting our safety
at risk.
One last thing Tom, not one person from management met our return
flight yesterday from Paris. We were not asked to fill out any
safety & incidents form or anything. Do I need to do this?
Please let me know that you received this and if you need any other
information.
Subject: AA flight You Won't Believe This!!!
Message 1:
This is from 48 on 4-20 departing DFW, arriving the a.m. in CDG on
4-21. These pics are from one of the four flight
crew I know from that flight. Funny the NS was pulled not to long
after landing in CDG!! About 10 to 14 minutes after TO, the crew in
the back felt a very strong vibration from underneath, notified the
cockpit and about six minutes or so later the crew in the back along
with the paxs, heard a loud explosion. Cockpit was notified and
apparently, the Capt. deemed it not worth returning to DFW and
continued onto CDG and well, surprise surprise in CDG!!!!!!! 99.999
% of the cockpit's we all fly with and are friends with would have
gone back in a heart beat and never questioned it, but this MIA
based Capt. decided that the eyes and ears of this cabin crew were
not reliable enough. Sad!!!
Happy trails everyone!!!!
Follow up message:
Dear Tom,
I am writing to you regarding Capt **********- #****** .He was my
Capt on flight 48 on 4-20-08 out of DFW. A few minutes after
takeoff(around
10,000 ft)we heard a loud, shaking noise coming from the belly of
the plane. I was sitting in my jumpseat in the mid galley and it
sounded like an explosion or very loud landing gear being ripped and
strong shaking. All the flight attendants heard and felt this,even
in the coach cabin.
The #4 called the #1 who was on the phone with the Capt and she told
him what we heard and felt. He called dispatch and between our call
and his to dispatch , he decided it was "most likely" an inside
cargo door that was left open, therefore allowing bags to shift. So
he made the decision to fly the 10 hrs to Paris without going back
to DFW to even check out what the noise was, where it came from,etc.
A lot of the flight attendants said they had heard an inside cargo
door sound before and thought it was similar. I for one have never
heard that so I didn't know what to think except to me it did not
sound good, nor normal. The flight was unusually hot and a little
shaky from time to time.
When we landed in CDG, the mechanics rushed on the plane and into
the cockpit. Apparently the tower had called (at least from what I
understood)and said that an AA flight was landing with a hole in the
belly. Yes a hole. The door to the pack had been ripped off and hit /
damaged the belly going AFT cracking, puncturing holes all along.
I know this since we all went and looked at it and took pix on our
cell phones. So over Dallas there were parts of our plane flying off.
This is a huge area, as you know. The mechanics couldn't believe we
made it there and were not hurt. The plane was put out of service
and a pro was flown in from Dallas the next day to look at the plane.
The Capt merely made a remark that maybe he should have questioned
all of us to see what we had felt or heard. I am not a pilot but I
can't imagine making a decision to go and not find out what that
loud shaking noise was after takeoff. We were still in the DFW area
and could have flown by the tower(for them to look)or returned to
the airport.
Honestly I felt like my life was in jeopardy by his decision. I
personally do not want to fly with him again. He is based in Miami
so the chances are slim, since I am in Dallas but I don't feel safe
with a Capt that makes that decision and puts our safety at risk,
along with his own.
I feel he should be suspended or reprimanded for putting our safety
at risk.
One last thing Tom, not one person from management met our return
flight yesterday from Paris. We were not asked to fill out any
safety & incidents form or anything. Do I need to do this?
Please let me know that you received this and if you need any other
information.
05-02-2008, 01:51 PM
#2
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
It's hard to judge without all the relevant information. I can't imagine the other pilots on that crew objected very strenuously. I don't know many captains that would press on over the objections of the other guys. IF this gets investigated and proves to be as bad as it sounds the captain and crew could get some unwanted vacation time. His decision is all the more surprising given the microscope environment the AA is under these days.
Never underestimate the amount a trouble a flight attendant can make for you.
Never underestimate the amount a trouble a flight attendant can make for you.
05-02-2008, 03:45 PM
#4
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,050
But presumably, shifting cargo had made funny noises in the past, and the CA may have been used to FA's getting exicted about it.
New FA's get upset by several common noises on the CRJ.
05-02-2008, 04:15 PM
#5
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Just another note on FAs. They can be great resources for the captain and are his eyes and ears back there. In that regard they can be very helpful. I always tell them to report any unusual sounds/smells/feelings they have to me As soon as they think appropriate. In other words, don't keep it a secrete just because we are under 10,000 feet.
On the other hand, watch out if you upset them......
05-08-2008, 10:27 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 606
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin...tory?track=rss
American Airlines plane lost panel in flight to Paris
By David Koenig | Associated Press Writer
1:54 PM EDT, May 8, 2008
DALLAS - Federal regulators said Thursday they are investigating how an American Airlines jet lost a panel from its belly shortly after taking off from Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport before continuing on across the Atlantic and landing safely in Paris.
Part of the Federal Aviation Administration's probe involves whether the pilot should have turned back, said FAA spokesman Roland Herwig.
Airline officials say the pilot thought the loud noises during the flight last month were due to cargo shifting, according to an internal memo obtained by The Associated Press.
A flight attendant on the April 20 trip said there was "a loud shaking noise from the belly of the plane." A few minutes later, there was another noise that "sounded like an explosion," the attendant said in an e-mail, according to Dallas television station WFAA.
When the Boeing 767 landed in Paris after the nine-hour flight, ground crews discovered a panel allowing access to an air conditioner was missing. The panel was part of the jet's outer skin and measured several square feet.
An American spokesman said the air conditioner area is separate from the cargo area and the pressurized cabin.
In a statement, the airline said it was also investigating and wouldn't comment further. The pilots' union had no comment, and the pilot, Steve Kantlehner,
[isn't there a law for withholding name till investigation ends] was not available for comment.
The airline's flight department told all pilots Wednesday that the captain "did exactly what we want our captains to do," according to a company memo obtained by The Associated Press.
"There was no way this crew could have known this panel had departed," said the memo from Jim Kaiser, American's manager of flight operations quality control, and Chuck Harman, the airline's fleet captain for Boeing 757 and 767 planes. "If they had known, they obviously would have returned" to DFW Airport.
According to the memo, no cockpit warning lights came on, and the pilot, who was not identified,[(too late)] also spoke to a maintenance technician in Fort Worth.
Kaiser and Harman, who are both pilots, said while pictures of the hole in the fuselage "are very dramatic," the passengers were never in danger.
After the plane landed, a flight attendant snapped pictures of the missing panel, and the photos began circulating in e-mails between American Airlines employees.
The case of the Paris-bound flight occurred only a week after American canceled about 3,300 flights while it grounded its fleet of MD-80 jets to inspect electrical wiring.
American Airlines plane lost panel in flight to Paris
By David Koenig | Associated Press Writer
1:54 PM EDT, May 8, 2008
DALLAS - Federal regulators said Thursday they are investigating how an American Airlines jet lost a panel from its belly shortly after taking off from Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport before continuing on across the Atlantic and landing safely in Paris.
Part of the Federal Aviation Administration's probe involves whether the pilot should have turned back, said FAA spokesman Roland Herwig.
Airline officials say the pilot thought the loud noises during the flight last month were due to cargo shifting, according to an internal memo obtained by The Associated Press.
A flight attendant on the April 20 trip said there was "a loud shaking noise from the belly of the plane." A few minutes later, there was another noise that "sounded like an explosion," the attendant said in an e-mail, according to Dallas television station WFAA.
When the Boeing 767 landed in Paris after the nine-hour flight, ground crews discovered a panel allowing access to an air conditioner was missing. The panel was part of the jet's outer skin and measured several square feet.
An American spokesman said the air conditioner area is separate from the cargo area and the pressurized cabin.
In a statement, the airline said it was also investigating and wouldn't comment further. The pilots' union had no comment, and the pilot, Steve Kantlehner,
[isn't there a law for withholding name till investigation ends] was not available for comment.The airline's flight department told all pilots Wednesday that the captain "did exactly what we want our captains to do," according to a company memo obtained by The Associated Press.
"There was no way this crew could have known this panel had departed," said the memo from Jim Kaiser, American's manager of flight operations quality control, and Chuck Harman, the airline's fleet captain for Boeing 757 and 767 planes. "If they had known, they obviously would have returned" to DFW Airport.
According to the memo, no cockpit warning lights came on, and the pilot, who was not identified,[(too late)] also spoke to a maintenance technician in Fort Worth.
Kaiser and Harman, who are both pilots, said while pictures of the hole in the fuselage "are very dramatic," the passengers were never in danger.
After the plane landed, a flight attendant snapped pictures of the missing panel, and the photos began circulating in e-mails between American Airlines employees.
The case of the Paris-bound flight occurred only a week after American canceled about 3,300 flights while it grounded its fleet of MD-80 jets to inspect electrical wiring.
05-08-2008, 02:08 PM
#7
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
It would be interesting to know how the other pilots felt about continuing.
05-08-2008, 02:30 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
This was an AA flight on a widebody. I'm guessing, based on previous experiences with AA that those F/As had been flying since the Kennedy White House. They know what sounds are normal, and what sounds aren't. Even if they didn't, I'd give them a little more credit than that.
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