No shortage
03-17-2008, 09:15 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"There is no way to really know what the average age of ghost forum visitors are."
Oh, the lurkers who are 18 and swayed by the opinion of Skyhigh. Please come fourth. I bet he'd pay you....
Oh, the lurkers who are 18 and swayed by the opinion of Skyhigh. Please come fourth. I bet he'd pay you....
03-17-2008, 09:18 PM
#72
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Apples
Sky, how about comparing oranges and lemons (they're both citrus fruit...)
High School Teacher -
Towson University (local school, about average for tuition from what I understand) 4 year degree (includes tuition, room, board, various fees) in education - $56,650 / year. This is based on current costs, and does not include cost increases that the university says to plan for (5% again sounds about right per year)... so, the corrected total is $244,167 for a 4 year degree to be a teacher
(I'm never having kids... although the wife and I had determined that years ago, this just confirms it!!!)
All ATP 90 day CFI crash course (zero to hero route) to be able to teach new pilots (see the reason for the comparison with teachers?) - $54,995, and I'm assuming you have to pay flight examiner fees, so add a couple hundred dollars to it.
First year salary for teachers (in the MD / DC area): $35,000 - $37,000. Subtract out the average $1100 / mo in rent in the area for a 1-2 bedroom apartment (this is on the low end too... come on, they have $1,000,000 TOWNHOMES around the DC area!!!) - $21,800 / year.
First year ATP CFI salary (minus the $300 / mo in rent) - $24,000 / year (based on the ATP web site figures including "average bonus", furnished housing, etc, and includes the $1600 / $2000 salary change at month 4)
So, in the more direct comparison (since its entirely possible for someone to be a career CFI and not require a college degree, whereas you need a college degree to be a high school teacher) the CFI ends up making more money!
High School Teacher -
Towson University (local school, about average for tuition from what I understand) 4 year degree (includes tuition, room, board, various fees) in education - $56,650 / year. This is based on current costs, and does not include cost increases that the university says to plan for (5% again sounds about right per year)... so, the corrected total is $244,167 for a 4 year degree to be a teacher
(I'm never having kids... although the wife and I had determined that years ago, this just confirms it!!!)
All ATP 90 day CFI crash course (zero to hero route) to be able to teach new pilots (see the reason for the comparison with teachers?) - $54,995, and I'm assuming you have to pay flight examiner fees, so add a couple hundred dollars to it.
First year salary for teachers (in the MD / DC area): $35,000 - $37,000. Subtract out the average $1100 / mo in rent in the area for a 1-2 bedroom apartment (this is on the low end too... come on, they have $1,000,000 TOWNHOMES around the DC area!!!) - $21,800 / year.
First year ATP CFI salary (minus the $300 / mo in rent) - $24,000 / year (based on the ATP web site figures including "average bonus", furnished housing, etc, and includes the $1600 / $2000 salary change at month 4)
So, in the more direct comparison (since its entirely possible for someone to be a career CFI and not require a college degree, whereas you need a college degree to be a high school teacher) the CFI ends up making more money!
Oh, and lets not forget that he is driving home by 4:00PM each day, has every weekend, holiday, two weeks in December, one week in the spring and the entire summer off. In addition he has a real retirement to look forward to. Stable employment. Demand profession.
Same cost of a four year degree as the aviation guys pay less the flight training.
SkyHigh
03-17-2008, 09:19 PM
#73
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
I don't know why
SkyHigh
PS I do have people PM me to offer thanks and encouragement.
03-17-2008, 09:23 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"My opinions must really threaten you"
No, not really. I'm just a believer in the truth.
"I do have people PM me to offer thanks and encouragement"
Whatever makes you happy. I just don't believe you....
You should get your army of believers to come on here and back you up....
PS: I have people who PM me and thank me for telling you you don't have a clue to your face. Really....
No, not really. I'm just a believer in the truth.
"I do have people PM me to offer thanks and encouragement"
Whatever makes you happy. I just don't believe you....
You should get your army of believers to come on here and back you up....
PS: I have people who PM me and thank me for telling you you don't have a clue to your face. Really....
03-17-2008, 09:51 PM
#75
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 57
I have a friend who graduated from a local state college last year and upon his first year as a high school teacher started at 55K with the promise of having his school loans paid off on his fifth year.
Oh, and lets not forget that he is driving home by 4:00PM each day, has every weekend, holiday, two weeks in December, one week in the spring and the entire summer off. In addition he has a real retirement to look forward to. Stable employment. Demand profession.
Same cost of a four year degree as the aviation guys pay less the flight training.
SkyHigh
Oh, and lets not forget that he is driving home by 4:00PM each day, has every weekend, holiday, two weeks in December, one week in the spring and the entire summer off. In addition he has a real retirement to look forward to. Stable employment. Demand profession.
Same cost of a four year degree as the aviation guys pay less the flight training.
SkyHigh
Weren't you the one complaining about people "dreaming" of getting a job with one of the few high paying airlines and that not being a reason to go into aviation? Sound the same as this situation. Your friend got one of the "dream jobs" that most people don't.
Personally, I'm going into aviation with eyes wide open, and know it can be (and most likely will be at times) difficult. However, I can rationally compare it to my current profession, and deduce that I will enjoy it more than what I currently do (which is one of those childhood "dream jobs" also... what kid doesn't want to be a firefighter?) Not to mention the reduced stress level for my wife. About a year and a half ago she got her first ever call at work that I had been hurt and was in the hospital. Her stress level about my job has been a lot higher ever since, and I cannot in good faith continue to put her through that.
Yes, I said earlier I was a paramedic. I'm both. Talk about screwed up, what other profession requires you to be an expert (because people's lives literally depend on you not f'ing up) in two COMPLETELY different fields and be 100% every single time you go to work? And after 10 years of experience as a firefighter / medic, if I were to go to one of the comm/multi airlines (Piedmont is local to me, so I'll use that one) and start at the bottom of their list, I'll be taking home only $350-$450 less (based on 72 hour minimum at Piedmont) a month. 2nd year it's down to about $100 / month less. Year 3 it's even or better money.
BTW- I wish my wife WITH HER 4 YEAR DEGREE made $50K... and she graduated more than 7 years ago!
Last edited by emsgoof; 03-17-2008 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Added another wife comment for Sky
03-18-2008, 05:31 AM
#76
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Back East
Must be nice. How many of those high quality private school high salary positions are out there? Looking at another web site (a teacher's site called "The Apple") the US average for starting salary for teachers is $30,667, which they get from the US Dept of Education.
Weren't you the one complaining about people "dreaming" of getting a job with one of the few high paying airlines and that not being a reason to go into aviation? Sound the same as this situation. Your friend got one of the "dream jobs" that most people don't.
Personally, I'm going into aviation with eyes wide open, and know it can be (and most likely will be at times) difficult. However, I can rationally compare it to my current profession, and deduce that I will enjoy it more than what I currently do (which is one of those childhood "dream jobs" also... what kid doesn't want to be a firefighter?) Not to mention the reduced stress level for my wife. About a year and a half ago she got her first ever call at work that I had been hurt and was in the hospital. Her stress level about my job has been a lot higher ever since, and I cannot in good faith continue to put her through that.
Yes, I said earlier I was a paramedic. I'm both. Talk about screwed up, what other profession requires you to be an expert (because people's lives literally depend on you not f'ing up) in two COMPLETELY different fields and be 100% every single time you go to work? And after 10 years of experience as a firefighter / medic, if I were to go to one of the comm/multi airlines (Piedmont is local to me, so I'll use that one) and start at the bottom of their list, I'll be taking home only $350-$450 less (based on 72 hour minimum at Piedmont) a month. 2nd year it's down to about $100 / month less. Year 3 it's even or better money.
BTW- I wish my wife WITH HER 4 YEAR DEGREE made $50K... and she graduated more than 7 years ago!
Weren't you the one complaining about people "dreaming" of getting a job with one of the few high paying airlines and that not being a reason to go into aviation? Sound the same as this situation. Your friend got one of the "dream jobs" that most people don't.
Personally, I'm going into aviation with eyes wide open, and know it can be (and most likely will be at times) difficult. However, I can rationally compare it to my current profession, and deduce that I will enjoy it more than what I currently do (which is one of those childhood "dream jobs" also... what kid doesn't want to be a firefighter?) Not to mention the reduced stress level for my wife. About a year and a half ago she got her first ever call at work that I had been hurt and was in the hospital. Her stress level about my job has been a lot higher ever since, and I cannot in good faith continue to put her through that.
Yes, I said earlier I was a paramedic. I'm both. Talk about screwed up, what other profession requires you to be an expert (because people's lives literally depend on you not f'ing up) in two COMPLETELY different fields and be 100% every single time you go to work? And after 10 years of experience as a firefighter / medic, if I were to go to one of the comm/multi airlines (Piedmont is local to me, so I'll use that one) and start at the bottom of their list, I'll be taking home only $350-$450 less (based on 72 hour minimum at Piedmont) a month. 2nd year it's down to about $100 / month less. Year 3 it's even or better money.
BTW- I wish my wife WITH HER 4 YEAR DEGREE made $50K... and she graduated more than 7 years ago!
We could be in the edge of another aviation melt down. Easy to get regional jobs could go up in smoke overnight. My advice to you is to sit tight for the next six months and watch as the impacts economy will have on aviation plays out.
SkyHigh
03-18-2008, 05:32 AM
#77
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Truth
"My opinions must really threaten you"
No, not really. I'm just a believer in the truth.
"I do have people PM me to offer thanks and encouragement"
Whatever makes you happy. I just don't believe you....
You should get your army of believers to come on here and back you up....
PS: I have people who PM me and thank me for telling you you don't have a clue to your face. Really....
No, not really. I'm just a believer in the truth.
"I do have people PM me to offer thanks and encouragement"
Whatever makes you happy. I just don't believe you....
You should get your army of believers to come on here and back you up....
PS: I have people who PM me and thank me for telling you you don't have a clue to your face. Really....
Skyhigh
03-18-2008, 08:24 AM
#79
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
To whom I address when I write a post is really the 18 year old kid with an ocean of life's paths to choose from. It is from that perspective that I highly suggest looking elsewhere. Aviation is too expensive to risky and if oil hits as high as some suggest then there is little future for any of us.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
If you had a chance to go back and redo life, would you tell your 18 year old self to never taking flying lessons? Could you really cut that whole part of your life out knowing how much fun it was to solo your first time? Weren't you happy chasing your dream and being hopeful? Its hard to imagine cutting out those happy years for me at least.
Sure you could have been happy doing something else, maybe, but I don't think most of us would change much about our choices to pursue an aviation career. I do believe you wish you could.
I really don't think you write these posts to "inform" the 18 year old newbies. I've never seen one person on these forums say "well I think I'll quit the aviation industry before I even start, thanks to SkyHigh's posts." I really feel like you are still trying to justify to yourself giving up on the dream. I honestly think you should consider talking to a professional instead of venting online. It may be therapeutic for you but I don't think its helping.
Stay hopeful folks
Hopefulharry
Last edited by hopefulharry; 03-18-2008 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Spelling errors
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