Delta's 1972 Christmas Message
12-14-2007, 10:40 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Agreed! I think most of us are somewhere in the middle of the extreme left and right on most of the fire-brand issues. I'm a little closer to the left because IMHO the Christmas tree thing is important, but when you do things like, oh lets say invade a sovereign country because you consulted your "Father"(God) about it, it gets a little scary.
Preacher's with business jets and mansions who say the hurricane Katrina was God's vengeance for gay tolerance. Christian extremist who demonstrate at our fallen soldier's funerals because of the military's gay policies. The aforementioned demonstrates that religion can and has been used to justify anything. I am a straight, Christian, professional and military officer with pretty conservative values. I think politicians use these hot button issues to distract and divide us from issues concerning the American middle-class. I enjoy singing spiritual carols in front of the courthouse, but I'm way more interested in the justice delivered inside the courthouse.
Preacher's with business jets and mansions who say the hurricane Katrina was God's vengeance for gay tolerance. Christian extremist who demonstrate at our fallen soldier's funerals because of the military's gay policies. The aforementioned demonstrates that religion can and has been used to justify anything. I am a straight, Christian, professional and military officer with pretty conservative values. I think politicians use these hot button issues to distract and divide us from issues concerning the American middle-class. I enjoy singing spiritual carols in front of the courthouse, but I'm way more interested in the justice delivered inside the courthouse.
That's precisely what I'm talking about. The rate at which it is becoming unacceptable to admit you have any faith at all is rising at an exponential rate. It doesn't gel with the founding or even resent history of our county.
12-14-2007, 10:52 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
"If you don't believe in God or hate Christmas that's fine. I promise not to show up at your local government building with a court order to put up Christmas tree or nativity. Just be so kind as to not show up at mine with a court order to take my community's down in an attempt to say that your actions were in the principle of our county's founding. Any intellectually honest person that study's all the founding documents could not possibly reach that conclusion."
We share the same local government building (not literally) so I don't see how this will work, and therein lies my issue. I too have enjoyed caroling on the town hall lawn for the past 80 years (well not 80) but I have to agree it is constituitionally illegal--and for good reason. For if I want to practice my religion there, everyone gets to practice their religion there; and because just about anything can be called a "religion" these days it scares me what might have to be "tolerated" and funded by the general public. So it's better that noone gets to do it (and besides that is what the Supreme Court has decided). Carol at the church, set up the nativity scene in your front yard, nothing is preventing you from doing that; just avoid the slippery slope of allowing religion in the government funded public arena.
We share the same local government building (not literally) so I don't see how this will work, and therein lies my issue. I too have enjoyed caroling on the town hall lawn for the past 80 years (well not 80) but I have to agree it is constituitionally illegal--and for good reason. For if I want to practice my religion there, everyone gets to practice their religion there; and because just about anything can be called a "religion" these days it scares me what might have to be "tolerated" and funded by the general public. So it's better that noone gets to do it (and besides that is what the Supreme Court has decided). Carol at the church, set up the nativity scene in your front yard, nothing is preventing you from doing that; just avoid the slippery slope of allowing religion in the government funded public arena.
I'll take the writings of the founding fathers' over your opinion on the constitutionality of manger scene at a courthouse. The idea that this was originally meant to be forbidden is ridiculous it is an invention of modern jurists.Also it's not a problem for you and I to share the very same government building. I would not use the courts to falsely enforce a celebration, and you would not use the courts to restrict one. Therefore the community would decide on its own what to do without the fear of a lawsuit from a crusading activist from 10 states away meddling in a community's affairs in advancement of their own agenda.
12-14-2007, 11:08 AM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 78
Agreed! I think most of us are somewhere in the middle of the extreme left and right on most of the fire-brand issues. I'm a little closer to the left because IMHO the Christmas tree thing is important, but when you do things like, oh lets say invade a sovereign country because you consulted your "Father"(God) about it, it gets a little scary.
Preacher's with business jets and mansions who say the hurricane Katrina was God's vengeance for gay tolerance. Christian extremist who demonstrate at our fallen soldier's funerals because of the military's gay policies. The aforementioned demonstrates that religion can and has been used to justify anything. I am a straight, Christian, professional and military officer with pretty conservative values. I think politicians use these hot button issues to distract and divide us from issues concerning the American middle-class. I enjoy singing spiritual carols in front of the courthouse, but I'm way more interested in the justice delivered inside the courthouse.
Preacher's with business jets and mansions who say the hurricane Katrina was God's vengeance for gay tolerance. Christian extremist who demonstrate at our fallen soldier's funerals because of the military's gay policies. The aforementioned demonstrates that religion can and has been used to justify anything. I am a straight, Christian, professional and military officer with pretty conservative values. I think politicians use these hot button issues to distract and divide us from issues concerning the American middle-class. I enjoy singing spiritual carols in front of the courthouse, but I'm way more interested in the justice delivered inside the courthouse.
EAHINC
12-14-2007, 11:17 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 224
Constituitional lawyer? No just a guy who reads the paper and doesn't want to be told that the Pagan goat-fornicators (I apologize to any Pagan goat-fornicators on this forum who might be offended) have a right to practice their "religion" on the court house steps every year because us Christians get to sing carols there at Christmas.
It would be nice if "the community would decide on its own" which religious practices could be government-sponsored, right up to the point where you are no longer in the majority. Allow prayer in school? Better get Johnny a Muslim prayer rug for first grade in Detroit...
It would be nice if "the community would decide on its own" which religious practices could be government-sponsored, right up to the point where you are no longer in the majority. Allow prayer in school? Better get Johnny a Muslim prayer rug for first grade in Detroit...
12-14-2007, 11:21 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Constituitional lawyer? No just a guy who reads the paper and doesn't want to be told that the Pagan goat-fornicators (I apologize to any Pagan goat-fornicators on this forum who might be offended) have a right to practice their "religion" on the court house steps every year because us Christians get to sing carols there at Christmas.
It would be nice if "the community would decide on its own" which religious practices could be government-sponsored, right up to the point where you are no longer in the majority. Allow prayer in school? Better get Johnny a Muslim prayer rug for first grade in Detroit...
It would be nice if "the community would decide on its own" which religious practices could be government-sponsored, right up to the point where you are no longer in the majority. Allow prayer in school? Better get Johnny a Muslim prayer rug for first grade in Detroit...
by the way, good one with the goat fornicators.
12-14-2007, 11:36 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
[quote=Deez340;279655]Forgive me I didn't realize you were a constitutional lawyer. I'll take the writings of the founding fathers' over your opinion on the constitutionality of manger scene at a courthouse. The idea that this was originally meant to be forbidden is ridiculous it is an invention of modern jurists.
Which writings are you referring to? The constitution or the federalist papers or something else. I ask because the phrase "separation of church and state" doesn't appear in the constitution. Our country was founded on freedom of religion not freedom from religion.
I'll take the writings of the founding fathers' over your opinion on the constitutionality of manger scene at a courthouse. The idea that this was originally meant to be forbidden is ridiculous it is an invention of modern jurists.Which writings are you referring to? The constitution or the federalist papers or something else. I ask because the phrase "separation of church and state" doesn't appear in the constitution. Our country was founded on freedom of religion not freedom from religion.
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