SkyHigh

Speeder,

I find it interesting how you guys like to perform an autopsy on my career. Is almost seems like you are looking for reasons why it will not happen to you. Just keep your head in the sand.

Speeder I don't need to spend any energy on you. It is obvious that you are speeding into a brick wall of your own doing. Anyone who is holding on that tight will not last long. Your lack of life experience gives you away as the young kid you really are. You are an embarrassment to yourself. Keep dreaming though. Flying magazine needs the subscription.


Like I said before. It's your life. I have done my part. You guys are way off base here. The entire industry is screaming the same as I but you guys can't hear it since your heads are in the sand. Go ask StearmanDriver and the others. If you have any real questions I will be here but you guys keep running back to that fantasy stuff I can't be of service.

Get out there and do it. Someone has to, I am just glad it isn't me anymore.


SkyHigh

PS
I got an email from a friend who is waiting for SWA to give him an answer if he will be in the next class or not. He told me that he plans to turn them down. He realises that he would miss the best part of his life with his kids on reserve and away from home. What other industry demands such a price?

fr8dog

......................................

ChrisH

SkyHigh,

You have been able to open and run a very successful business, that according to you, will continue to flourish, and do better over time. I certainly wish you the best of luck with that!

The statistic I have heard, however, is that one business opens and fails every six seconds. This means that plenty of people before, and after you have/will spent/spend a lot of money, time and effort to open a business and have it fail. I am sure there are plenty of these people who have the same attitude and opinion about the business world, and opening your own business, as you do about the airline industry and being a pilot. They would recommend not trying to open your own business. If you had listened to these people, look at what you would be missing out on; a very successful business.

My point above, is that one person lack of success, or bad experience, does not automatically equal another's lack of success or bad experience. I am sure there are other pilots out there that have had the same experiences you have, but there are just as many, or more, who have a good job, a good life, and would not want to be doing anything else.

If I were to try to bring up what a UPS, FedEx, SWA, AirTran, JetBlue, etc. captain makes, you would probably shoot it down, saying very few will make it to that level, and would then begin quoting some of the lowest pilot pay there is. You, however, don't hesitate to bring up your cousin's LA police officer salary of $100K. Very few police officers make that, and many would love to make half of that salary. It is not realistic to become a police officer and expect to make $100K. Consider your cousin the 'UPS Captain' of police officers, so to speak.

Everybody has complaints about their jobs. Everybody feels they are under valued and underpaid, regardless of their career. No job is perfect, and they all have their bumps and hurdles. For the most part, success is about having a good attitude and working toward a goal, regardless of the obstacles that are in front of you. Nobody ever said making it as a pilot would be easy, but if you keep a good attitude, and keep pushing forward, the reward can be great in the end. This applies to life in general.

I think as soon as pilots get it out of their heads that they should be making more than everybody else, and as soon as someone does make more than them, being a pilot isn't worth it, the sooner attitudes will change, and the industry will change. I don't think it is the young aspiring pilots like myself who are causing the problems, it is the negative people with bad attitudes who cannot see any good in any situation.

As far as this friend, or person you know that turned down a SWA position. He is one of very few. If he wishes to pass that opportunity up, so be it, I hope he does well in whatever else he decides to do. In the meantime, he has given someone else the shot at his slot, and made another pilot very happy.

Tgaug6300

Hello all, As a Deputy Sheriff (10 years in LE)I thought I might put my two cents in. As a Sheriff I make 45K/yr, not too bad, I live here in the midwest where the cost of living is manageable. Our department has outstanding insurance. I also have a great retirement. I work Monday-Friday, with weekends and Holidays off. Not too bad.
I fly our Departments' Turbo Commander 690A (every day, well Monday thru Friday)550 hours/yr, all over the United States. The best part is that I am home almost every night! Quality of life is the most important thing for me. I'm able to make it to my kids Christmas programs, and other events. Those of you that have kids know what I'm talking about!
Yes, I paid for all my training too. The department didn't pay a dime for any of my training. I have my ME ATP, CFI and CFII.
I have buddies that fly for the airlines and fractionals and they always tell me "STAY WHERE YOU ARE!!". I realize that my job is most certainly not the normal flying job. I also know that I will NEVER make 100K/yr either. But that is not why we go into Law Enforcement, and if that is the only reason that someone goes into Aviation, Well I guess I find that sad. But I also know that I will never be "laid off" or fourloughed either.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if someone wants to go to the Airlines, and that will make you happy, then by all means try it out. For me that was never an option. I don't like the uncertainty with the airlines(plus I couldn't raise two kids on 18K/year, even if it is for one year). Do whatever will make you happy!

Good luck to all, and have a Great Christmas!!

TG

preludespeeder

sky high

your sarcasm falls on death ears. i have been reading in this forum for quiet some time and you are one of the few on hear who seem to think that if you complain enough someone will buy into your problems with the airlines. i may be speeding into a long hard road to my dream but i will not let bumps in the road cause me to degrade someone elses dreams or realities. you have a problem that is specific to your needs and issues, not mine not anybody elses.

i am 25 with two kids and a wife, and have lived on 40k a year. i know about the hard life. for the last four years i have worked 50-60 hours a week and went to college full time. i am tired of hearing people complain about not having 9 to 5 jobs and how they can not spend anytime with their family. to me it is BS. you either make the time when you have it or you do not.

sky high as far as my perception of you is that you will never be happy with what you have. when, not if, your new business slows down you will probably be on a new business forum talking about how it is the wrong thing to do and how some thing is bringing it down. your life is only what you make of it and you seem to make success very hard to achieve.

SkyHigh

Speeder,

Thanks but I am happy. I have a great job now. I am never gone and am doing better than I ever have before. You seem to think I was a job hopper. Not the case I can assure you. Back when I started it was unheard of to jump into the regionals with 700 hours. We had to work our way up the ladder.

All I can say is the world is your oyster. Get out there and start enjoying that fantasy career of yours. You haven't even began to pay yet. Soon you will only dream of making 40K again. You have some very hard opinions that are not based on reality.

I think it is irresponsible for an established family man to start out on an airline career. The goal should be to have an already established career going before you take on the responsibility of others. If you really love them you will wake up before it is too late. Something inside you realises that I speak the truth or else you would not be so upset about my words. I have seen this career blind men into loosing the only things in life that are truly worth having. Families need to have safe and happy places to live. Chasing an airline dream can drag you and your family through some awful living conditions. Divorce is epidemic in this industry.

In conclusion it is possible to get a job at a regional and to survive at it. The question is why would you want to put yourself through all the expense and wasted years unless you were somewhat assured of making it to someplace that is better than mediocre? I wanted a better life for my family. I worked and sacrificed for more time off and the ability to enjoy the better things of accomplishing the heights of a fine profession. More and more these days people are reaching the top to find nothing there but a livable (but non-prospering) wage and endless strings of 6 to 9 leg days unto oblivion. In addition, the airlines are actively working every day to reduce conditions to far below even mediocre. Our industry is not a short term down turn, this is a trend that has been ongoing for over 20 years now.

I have never said not to try if the only one to loose is yourself and you understand the risks. It's just urgently important to have a back up plan.

I understand that somehow you will have to conclude that I am a ranting malcontent. The alternative is too painful for you to even consider.

Best of luck to you and your family, and as always it is truly a privilege to be able to communicate with you all. I understand that some of you might hate my message but please accept my heart felt gesture that I am only trying to be a friend.

SkyHigh

dittidano

This whole thread comes down to this; if a life as an aviator is your passion, follow your dreams. If you do not make it or give up like Skyhigh, hey you tried to follow dream. If you listen to people like Skyhigh and let him talk you out of a career in aviation, when your 50 your going to look back and kick yourself in the butt. All I am saying is try it out, if you feel that being a pilot is your cup of tea then dont listen to guys like skyhigh. If you try it out and do not like it after many of years, you can look back and say " hey I tried it out and it just did not work for me." Atleast you can say you tried, and when it does work out for you, you can say "god I am glad I didnt take the advice of skyhigh."

FlyerJosh

Like it or not, it's one hell of a ride. There are many who have thrown in the towel. There are just as many that make it work and love it too. It does make for an interesting family life. But SkyHigh also fails to mention about some of the benefits to this lifestyle (pardon me while I have a sappy moment):

I've taken my family on many trips, both domestic and international that we wouldn't have been able to travel on without free or reduced airfare. We've seen San Fran in the Summer and Ft Lauderdale in the Winter. We got engaged on a trip to Seattle, and have skiied around the country.

My wife was able to commute weekly from Washington DC to Boston for classes towards her Masters Degree at the school that she most wanted to attend.

I have seen more places and interesting things as a result of my job than both of my parents combined: The Eiffel Tower at Christmas, 5am meteor showers from 35000', the rain forests of Central America and the blue waters of the Caribbean. The northern lights, and the entire east coast from Maine to DC all at once on a clear winter night. Steam on the Great Lakes in the morning from subzero temperatures, and the swaying palms of sunny San Diego in the afternoon. The snow covered peaks of Mt Rainer to the volcanic rocks of Iceland. Smiles of children in the cockpit, and the hugs of passengers that just met long seen loved ones.

I've met some incredible people, and seen both the ups and downs of the job. I know people who have ridden through divorces, but I know even more who have survived the trials only to end up stronger in their relationships.

I've made some lifetime friends and still run into many familiar faces at the various airports that I travel through. We relive the memories of days long past, and sit for hours on overnights while tossing back beers and bringing each other up to date.

I've walked through the snow with drunken flight attendants, and helped other pilots through the grief of losing a loved one on trips.

I've partied hard on the road, and partied hard at home with friends and coworkers from the airlines.

I've spent many a holiday gone, but just as many at home... for those I was gone, I often brought family along. You can have just as much quality time away as you can at home. Sometimes it's even better.

I've shared the love of aviation with others, and done as much as I can to mentor and help folks along their own paths... some have made it, some have not.

Is the path right for everybody? Obviously not. But you never know until you try. We can beat this to death and we'll never change some peoples attitudes. But if you love it, and can live with the various ups and downs of this job, then it's one heck of a ride.

I wouldn't trade it for the world.

dittidano

flyerjosh, you said it; aviation is not for everybody. Those who it is for,can have an incredible career. Your career sounds fantastic. I envy your career,and i hope mine is the same. I know that there are ups and downs,however,its a great industry. Whatever Skyhigh says, the industry is in a upward trend. I just graduated with a masters in Aviation Managment, even though the industry does not pay what it use too, the industry is in a upaward trend. Despite, some majors going chaper 11, the industry really is growing. Being a pilot and having a masters in Aviation Management, I know. Skyhigh has not have a clue of what he is talking about. If the industy was in such shambles, why is there start up companies happening here? Even if Skyhigh is right, which he is not; there will always have to be air travel. therefore, there will always be jobs for pilots! I dont care what Skyhig says, the average mean of pilots pay will alway be greater than that of the US. Skyhigh, you are a negative person who should not be aloud on this forum. You see it as you are doing good; trying to inform future pilots of the negative aspects of being a pilot. Skyhigh, there are very negative aspects of every job whatever it may be. I am glad that you will never be mypilot, your attitude stinks. Go find something better to do with your time than to hack on the aviation industry. Just because you sucked and your career sucked, doesnt mean everyone elses has too. Keep your big stupid uneducated mouth shut.

SkyHigh

Dittidano, Josh,

You guys make me smile. I agree that anything in life is what you make it. There are people out there who are musicians, artists, political activists and other difficult careers that mostly only offer only satisfaction as a reward. If you are one of those people then good for you. Get out there and do it. I think that aviation offers false representations of career opportunities and lifestyles. The legend of the overpaid and under worked airline pilot is still alive and well, but fading. My mission is to bring a little truth to the world.

Dittidano I still cant understand how a know nothing book worm can refer to myself as uneducated. I would be embarrassed to claim that I was stupid enough to get a masters degree in aviation. It appears that you don't even have a pilots licence yet. Do you? And your extremely humorous reference about the industry downing well and about new start ups will keep me smiling for days. Haven't you read any of the other posts about Virgin America? How about some of the others that refer to Ryan Air, Easyjet and the future of their work practices coming to America? You are right that the industry is growing, but the life of a pilot is still falling. At Ryan Air pilots earn a wage that would scare a Mc Donalds employee and an addition they apparently have to pay for their own hotel rooms. And, these new European start ups could be coming here. YEA !!!


Both you guys are great. I really appreciate your posts and wish you both well.

SkyHigh