Israel
10-08-2023, 07:59 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 531
Call me crazy, but maybe both sides have legitimate and reasonable grievances and injustices that have occurred...and without acknowledging that peace is impossible?
It's an area of the world with many anti-hero examples.
I'm not sure the behavior and policy of Israel are indicative of peace or benefit the western world in any shape or form.
It's an area of the world with many anti-hero examples.
I'm not sure the behavior and policy of Israel are indicative of peace or benefit the western world in any shape or form.
10-08-2023, 08:27 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 472
Call me crazy, but maybe both sides have legitimate and reasonable grievances and injustices that have occurred...and without acknowledging that peace is impossible?
It's an area of the world with many anti-hero examples.
I'm not sure the behavior and policy of Israel are indicative of peace or benefit the western world in any shape or form.
It's an area of the world with many anti-hero examples.
I'm not sure the behavior and policy of Israel are indicative of peace or benefit the western world in any shape or form.
there is NO justification for terrorism and senseless killings
10-08-2023, 03:51 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,501
This is beyond f'ed up, but go ahead and make up a hypothetical government with policies infuriating enough to make you want to take up arms against a very capable modern military, and you'll see a checklist of Israeli policies.
- Literally lock you into one area and restrict your freedom of movement
- Gov't sanctioned poverty
- Restrict supplies and aid to said poverty inflicted areas
- Allow it's citizens to steal your land, destroy your livelihood and take your homes
- Drop bombs on your neighborhood from time to time
- Literally be a second class citizen with no voting rights and no representation
- Kill your neighbors with zero chance of accountability or justice
- Restrict access to your religion's most holy sites
Did I miss anything? It's interesting that many of the Israeli government's most fervent supporters in the US are the same ones screaming about how it's government overreach to mandate a vaccine or a slightly restrict which firearms you can buy, but have no problem with the Israeli government instituting the above policies. It doesn't excuse atrocities against Israeli civilians, but damn you couldn't create a better recipe for radicalizing enemies if you tried. If you keep your boot on someone's neck you can expect a reaction, and it's not going to be pretty.
Freedom House rate's Gaza's freedoms as an 11/100. Compare that to
Iran- 11
Myanmar- 10
China- 9
Russia- 21
Venezuela- 29
Cuba- 20
Sudan- 30
USA- 76
So if you ever think about how citizens in places like China, Iran or Myanmar should rebel against their oppressive government, you should 100% expect the people of Gaza to fight back too.
- Literally lock you into one area and restrict your freedom of movement
- Gov't sanctioned poverty
- Restrict supplies and aid to said poverty inflicted areas
- Allow it's citizens to steal your land, destroy your livelihood and take your homes
- Drop bombs on your neighborhood from time to time
- Literally be a second class citizen with no voting rights and no representation
- Kill your neighbors with zero chance of accountability or justice
- Restrict access to your religion's most holy sites
Did I miss anything? It's interesting that many of the Israeli government's most fervent supporters in the US are the same ones screaming about how it's government overreach to mandate a vaccine or a slightly restrict which firearms you can buy, but have no problem with the Israeli government instituting the above policies. It doesn't excuse atrocities against Israeli civilians, but damn you couldn't create a better recipe for radicalizing enemies if you tried. If you keep your boot on someone's neck you can expect a reaction, and it's not going to be pretty.
Freedom House rate's Gaza's freedoms as an 11/100. Compare that to
Iran- 11
Myanmar- 10
China- 9
Russia- 21
Venezuela- 29
Cuba- 20
Sudan- 30
USA- 76
So if you ever think about how citizens in places like China, Iran or Myanmar should rebel against their oppressive government, you should 100% expect the people of Gaza to fight back too.
10-08-2023, 05:22 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 518
Try being a Jew and walk into East Jerusalem. (Or other Arab controlled areas in Israel). See how welcome you feel, if you even make it out. Now try being a Muslim and walking anywhere you feel like in the entire country… you’re gonna be completely fine.
Just like a few other posters on here, you’re only seeing one side on the American media. Most Americans are completely clueless on what Israelis have had to deal with everyday for thousands of years, especially the last few decades. There’s a reason the so called “apartheid state” exists.
Even as “oppressed” as Americans are misled into thinking Palestinians are… they still have more rights and freedoms in Israel (a Jewish nation) than they would in many neighboring middle eastern (Arab/Muslim) countries. Especially women and anyone who identifies with LGBTQ.
Just like a few other posters on here, you’re only seeing one side on the American media. Most Americans are completely clueless on what Israelis have had to deal with everyday for thousands of years, especially the last few decades. There’s a reason the so called “apartheid state” exists.
Even as “oppressed” as Americans are misled into thinking Palestinians are… they still have more rights and freedoms in Israel (a Jewish nation) than they would in many neighboring middle eastern (Arab/Muslim) countries. Especially women and anyone who identifies with LGBTQ.
I’m not sure if it’s uniquely American, but we certainly have a tendency to read a little bit on a subject and then believe we are the authority on it.
10-08-2023, 06:04 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Posts: 2,283
“The outside world can take nothing from you and cannot unhinge you, as long as you do not allow yourself to be disturbed. The events of your time remain impotent before you, as long as you refuse to take part in them, and the madness of of the epoch does not constitute a real danger, as long as you conserve yourself a purity of spirit.”
- Stefan Zweig commenting on Michel Montaigne
- Stefan Zweig commenting on Michel Montaigne
10-08-2023, 09:15 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 189
WTF? The Jews have lived in that region for thousands of years. Palestinians have generally been a nomadic people, and in fact 40% live as refugees in Jordan. Some as far away as Chile. Regardless, living together is the big challenge. I watched an interview, translated, of a family in the Gaza. There was a Palestinian news woman interviewing a family. A question was posed to a young child what she thought of the Jews. Her answer was they are dogs and pigs. A very big insult in the Muslim world. That is not inherent. These people are taught hatred from a very young age.
10-08-2023, 10:14 PM
#48
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,262
You don't know the history of Israel is a modern nation-state, do you?
Do you know where the schism between jews and arabs comes from?
Have you ever incorrectly used the word "anti-semetic," thinking that it means "anti-jew?" While it's often defined that way, and certainly much of the arab world is anti-semitic in that it is anti-jew, it is also paradoxically true that both jews and arabs are semites.
You're aware that the arabs and the jews are both semites, of course. Aren't you?
You're aware that anti-jewish literature and sentiment for a great many centuries has been far more aggressive and prominent from Christian sources, than from Islam? Did you not know that?
Israel is under attack by Hamas. What year was Israel established? If you guessed 1947, you'd be right. Give yourself a pat on the back. (UN partition in 1947, declaration of the state of Israel 1948). If you guessed that arabs, and specifically Palestinians outpopulated jews in the new partition by 2:1, you'd also be right.
Now--so far as us air traffic pulling back from the current conflict zone, that's a yes and no. Legacy carriers will pull back, but ACMI operators will see increasing frequency of travela and transport. Every time Israel starts lobbing rockets, someone has to bring those rockets to Israel. Been there.
Do you know where the schism between jews and arabs comes from?
Have you ever incorrectly used the word "anti-semetic," thinking that it means "anti-jew?" While it's often defined that way, and certainly much of the arab world is anti-semitic in that it is anti-jew, it is also paradoxically true that both jews and arabs are semites.
You're aware that the arabs and the jews are both semites, of course. Aren't you?
You're aware that anti-jewish literature and sentiment for a great many centuries has been far more aggressive and prominent from Christian sources, than from Islam? Did you not know that?
Israel is under attack by Hamas. What year was Israel established? If you guessed 1947, you'd be right. Give yourself a pat on the back. (UN partition in 1947, declaration of the state of Israel 1948). If you guessed that arabs, and specifically Palestinians outpopulated jews in the new partition by 2:1, you'd also be right.
Now--so far as us air traffic pulling back from the current conflict zone, that's a yes and no. Legacy carriers will pull back, but ACMI operators will see increasing frequency of travela and transport. Every time Israel starts lobbing rockets, someone has to bring those rockets to Israel. Been there.
10-09-2023, 05:47 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 148
You don't know the history of Israel is a modern nation-state, do you?
Do you know where the schism between jews and arabs comes from?
Have you ever incorrectly used the word "anti-semetic," thinking that it means "anti-jew?" While it's often defined that way, and certainly much of the arab world is anti-semitic in that it is anti-jew, it is also paradoxically true that both jews and arabs are semites.
You're aware that the arabs and the jews are both semites, of course. Aren't you?
You're aware that anti-jewish literature and sentiment for a great many centuries has been far more aggressive and prominent from Christian sources, than from Islam? Did you not know that?
Israel is under attack by Hamas. What year was Israel established? If you guessed 1947, you'd be right. Give yourself a pat on the back. (UN partition in 1947, declaration of the state of Israel 1948). If you guessed that arabs, and specifically Palestinians outpopulated jews in the new partition by 2:1, you'd also be right.
Now--so far as us air traffic pulling back from the current conflict zone, that's a yes and no. Legacy carriers will pull back, but ACMI operators will see increasing frequency of travela and transport. Every time Israel starts lobbing rockets, someone has to bring those rockets to Israel. Been there.
Do you know where the schism between jews and arabs comes from?
Have you ever incorrectly used the word "anti-semetic," thinking that it means "anti-jew?" While it's often defined that way, and certainly much of the arab world is anti-semitic in that it is anti-jew, it is also paradoxically true that both jews and arabs are semites.
You're aware that the arabs and the jews are both semites, of course. Aren't you?
You're aware that anti-jewish literature and sentiment for a great many centuries has been far more aggressive and prominent from Christian sources, than from Islam? Did you not know that?
Israel is under attack by Hamas. What year was Israel established? If you guessed 1947, you'd be right. Give yourself a pat on the back. (UN partition in 1947, declaration of the state of Israel 1948). If you guessed that arabs, and specifically Palestinians outpopulated jews in the new partition by 2:1, you'd also be right.
Now--so far as us air traffic pulling back from the current conflict zone, that's a yes and no. Legacy carriers will pull back, but ACMI operators will see increasing frequency of travela and transport. Every time Israel starts lobbing rockets, someone has to bring those rockets to Israel. Been there.
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