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Old 10-30-2024, 09:07 PM
  #4231  
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
I'm not saying we aren't spending money on Ukraine, but it's nowhere near $175 billion. That is using the DOD's creative accounting. We are giving them lots of our old equipment that we have no use for in the future. For example, the 2,000 Humvees we sent were valued at something like $200 million. That's for 2,000 vehicles our country no longer needs. They are getting our left overs so the DOD can buy new replacements.
https://www.gao.gov/blog/ukraine-aid-important-so-oversight-funding-and-assistance

The GAO disagrees with you. An excerpt:

Ukraine Aid is Important, But So is Oversight of This Funding and Assistance

Posted on September 04, 2024
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has caused a devastating loss of life, widespread humanitarian crisis, and other global effects. As of April, Congress has appropriated more than $174 billion to assist Ukraine. This includes funding to purchase missiles, ammunition, and combat vehicles for Ukraine. It also includes economic and humanitarian assistance to help those in Ukraine and neighboring countries affected by the invasion.

While this assistance is vital, so is oversight of how funding and other assistance are being tracked and used.
I realize that is ONLY $174 billion, not the whole $175 billion, but that article only covers what we gave them through April 2024, and most of that was non military aid in actual dollars, not used Humvees. But another 6 months has gone by and billions more have been sent since.

If you really are interested, you can follow it on this website:

https://www.ukraineoversight.gov
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Old 10-30-2024, 09:30 PM
  #4232  
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Originally Posted by Lowslung
Mistakes were made. We basically gave the Russians a license to steal WRT Georgia and Crimea. Wish we would've been more forceful then. Crying over spilled milk will do nothing for us or Ukraine now though. The only question to answered is: where do you stand right now, today? And yes, it is quite possible for one to support continued material support for Ukraine to defend itself with without also advocating for "boots on the ground" and/or "tactical nukes" to use your own favorite red herrings.
GMAFB. We HAVE BEEN supporting Ukraine, and despite that they went from stalemate to gradually losing. Are you seriously telling me you want to do the same thing we have been doing for two and two thirds years and you somehow expect a different result? Or that that's even possible? Most of the rest of NATO - the countries with larger populations and GDP anyway - are already cutting. Look at Germany, the largest economy on the Continent.


Most of the limited non nuclear weaponry the rest of NATO had they have already given. Most of the non military support they have given is theoretically loans which a badly damaged Ukraine would take decades to pay back assuming they even CAN pay it back. Hungary, Slovakia, and increasingly Czechia are increasingly becoming proRussia. The foreign minister of Hungary is on his way to Minsk as a featured speaker in Belarus:

Hungarian FM to join Russia, Syria and Belarus at security summit

NATO allyship be damned, Viktor Orbán’s top diplomat will join senior Russian official at eastern rival to Munich Security Conference.

https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-peter-szijjarto-join-russia-syria-belarus-security-summit/

Hungarian Foreign Minister Péter Szijjártó will speak at the Minsk Conference on Eurasian Security in Belarus this week.

Szijjártó will join other participants, including his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov and even Syrian Foreign Minister Bassam Sabbagh, as a speaker on Oct. 31.

The gathering in Belarus should be seen as a rival to the Munich Security Conference, according to the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), a military alliance of six post-Soviet states including Russia and Belarus.
Can you honestly say that you believe continuing to support Ukraine until they get all their occupied territory back is a likely option (without nukes or US boots on the ground? If you do, you may be the only one that thinks that's going to happen.
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Old 10-31-2024, 06:31 AM
  #4233  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-confirms-tomahawk-missiles-victory-plan-blasts-us-for-giving-away-secrets-ukraine-white-house-russia-war-leak/


Zelenskyy blasts White House for leaking secret missile plan to the New York Times

“So, it means between partners there’s nothing confidential?” Ukrainian leader queries of his U.S. allies.

OCTOBER 30, 2024 5:07 PM CET
BY VERONIKA MELKOZEROVAKYIV — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy confirmed Wednesday that he asked the United States for Tomahawk long-range missiles to help defeat Russia — and slammed the White House for leaking secrets to the American media.

The Tomahawks can fly up to 1,500 kilometers and would allow Ukraine to strike targets deep inside Russia if permitted by the U.S., which is a key part of Kyiv's so-called Victory Plan for beating back Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

Zelenskyy, though, was displeased with information about the Tomahawk request being divulged to the New York Times for a story in which an anonymous senior U.S. official described the Ukrainian request as totally unfeasible.

“And this was confidential information between Ukraine and the White House. How should we understand these messages? So, it means between partners there’s nothing confidential?” Zelenskyy saidduring an interview with Nordic media outlets published Wednesday.

In the story, the New York Times noted senior U.S. officials did not think Ukrainian leadership had made a convincing case for how they would use the long-range missiles to turn the tide on the battlefield.

The target list that Ukraine presented the U.S. with far exceeded the number of missiles the American military can spare for Kyiv without jeopardizing potential requirements for the Middle East and Asia, the anonymous officials added in the story.

Senior Kyiv officials beyond Zelenskyy were also puzzled by the information leaking in a negative light.

“We know the plan is realistic. U.S. own military studied it and said it is realistic,” a Ukrainian official familiar with the matter told POLITICO when granted anonymity to be able to speak about a sensitive foreign policy issue.



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Old 10-31-2024, 06:36 AM
  #4234  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-war-in-ukraine-russia-north-korean-troops-western-allies-response/


Zelenskyy: Russia’s North Korean troops should spark stronger Western response

“It’s opened a new page in this war,” the Ukrainian leader said

OCTOBER 30, 2024 6:03 PM CET
BY SEB STARCEVIC AND VERONIKA MELKOZEROVAUkraine’s allies in the West did not have a “strong enough” reaction to North Korean soldiers actively joining Russia’s side in the war, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Wednesday.

The Pentagon warned Monday that North Korea has sent about 10,000 troops to Russia for training, with some already moving toward the front line near the Ukrainian border to help the Kremlin’s military battle Kyiv’s forces. NATO also confirmed Monday that Pyongyang's soldiers have been deployed to Kursk, the Russian region that is partly controlled by Ukraine.

“The voice of the United States, the voice of NATO, the voice of Western partners, the voice of Global South and China, is not so loud as it has to be now about North Korean contingent on the territory of Russia,” Zelenskyy told reporters Wednesday at the Nordic Council summit in Reykjavík. “I think it’s very dangerous. It’s opened a new page in this war.



“I had meetings with leaders, a lot of different leaders, and NATO and etcetera, and I said to them that this is very dangerous and I think that we need strong reaction on it,” he added. “Till now, we heard some reactions, but it is not strong enough.”

He also chided Ukraine's allies for balking at providing Kyiv long-range weapons capable of striking targets inside Russia out of a fear of escalation.

“Some countries say that’s crossing the red lines. If we give you permission, Russia will escalate things,” he said. “I am sorry, but I think the North Korean soldiers entering war is escalation.”

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Old 10-31-2024, 07:54 AM
  #4235  
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oh god here we go again……ya done got the bot all riled up there fellas…..stand by for days of incessant desperate posts lol
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Old 10-31-2024, 08:07 AM
  #4236  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped
oh god here we go again……ya done got the bot all riled up there fellas…..stand by for days of incessant desperate posts lol
Once again a post lacking meaningful substance about the topic of the thread THAT HE STARTED.
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Old 10-31-2024, 12:50 PM
  #4237  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
GMAFB. We HAVE BEEN supporting Ukraine, and despite that they went from stalemate to gradually losing. Are you seriously telling me you want to do the same thing we have been doing for two and two thirds years and you somehow expect a different result?
I'm shocked at this developement. Truly shocked. The House Republicans refuse to fund Ukraine's defense and the Russians end up killing thousands of more Ukrainians? This helps shift the momentum of the war? How does this happen? It's not supposed to work this way! I'm so confused.
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Old 10-31-2024, 02:51 PM
  #4238  
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North of 7m illegal border crossings over 4 years can get confusing.
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Old 10-31-2024, 07:43 PM
  #4239  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback
I'm shocked at this developement. Truly shocked. The House Republicans refuse to fund Ukraine's defense and the Russians end up killing thousands of more Ukrainians? This helps shift the momentum of the war? How does this happen? It's not supposed to work this way! I'm so confused.
And that money was authorized way back on 23 April. That's five months and eight days ago. So how much of that has actually GOTTEN to Ukraine? This is what Zelensky said yesterday:

Ukraine has received only 10% of latest approved aid from US, Zelenskiy says

By Reuters
October 30, 20247:56 AM PDTUpdated a day ago

Oct 30 (Reuters) - Ukraine has received only 10% of U.S. military aid approved by Congress earlier this year, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in a video released on Wednesday.
Russia, which sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine in February 2022, has accelerated its advances in the east and Kyiv's military is outgunned and outmanned by its more powerful foe.
President Volodymyr Zelensky’s recent charge that only ten percent of the military assistance the US said it would transfer to Ukraine this year has actually reached Ukrainian troops, is largely accurate, a Kyiv Post review of figures published by the Pentagon found.

Speaking at a meeting with reporters in Reykjavik on Wednesday, Zelensky said one of Ukraine’s many problems battling Russian invasion is that allied-promised arms assistance arrives too late or not at all - which complicates defense planning and kills and injures Ukrainians.

In the case of the US, Ukraine’s biggest military materiel supporter, a whopping 90 percent of military assistance approved by Congress for FY 2024 has yet to reach the battlefield, the Ukrainian leader said

​​​​​​​
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/41431

So it looks like the Repubs slow rolling an authorization ain't the only problem.
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Old 10-31-2024, 09:33 PM
  #4240  
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…and nobody gas.

Russia, PRC, Iran, N Korea, Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Thailand, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Ukraine. Autocratic hellholes all. Presumably quite nice for the elite 2%ers. Means nothing to me. The border morons. THE BORDER
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