Ukraine conflict
03-14-2023, 06:52 PM
#402
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
“And, as Mike Rowe has been preaching for a decade or more, we lack the sorts of skilled workers we once had.“
You mean lacking the skilled workers like my mother, who was a bank teller? She went to work in WW 2 building B-25s.
Grabbing statistics, quotes, etc. and trying to force fit them into your arguments does not work. When I mentioned the WW 2 auto CEOs, you say they are not relevant today, because part of auto manufacturing is in other countries. Yet we have higher labor force participation rate today, than back then. Whether CEOs work as heads of auto manufacturers or heads of defense contractors does not take away from their ability to plan and forecast, as imperfect as planning and forecasting always has been.
You mean lacking the skilled workers like my mother, who was a bank teller? She went to work in WW 2 building B-25s.
Grabbing statistics, quotes, etc. and trying to force fit them into your arguments does not work. When I mentioned the WW 2 auto CEOs, you say they are not relevant today, because part of auto manufacturing is in other countries. Yet we have higher labor force participation rate today, than back then. Whether CEOs work as heads of auto manufacturers or heads of defense contractors does not take away from their ability to plan and forecast, as imperfect as planning and forecasting always has been.
03-14-2023, 08:55 PM
#403
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
“And, as Mike Rowe has been preaching for a decade or more, we lack the sorts of skilled workers we once had.“
You mean lacking the skilled workers like my mother, who was a bank teller? She went to work in WW 2 building B-25s.
Grabbing statistics, quotes, etc. and trying to force fit them into your arguments does not work. When I mentioned the WW 2 auto CEOs, you say they are not relevant today, because part of auto manufacturing is in other countries. Yet we have higher labor force participation rate today, than back then. Whether CEOs work as heads of auto manufacturers or heads of defense contractors does not take away from their ability to plan and forecast, as imperfect as planning and forecasting always has been.
You mean lacking the skilled workers like my mother, who was a bank teller? She went to work in WW 2 building B-25s.
Grabbing statistics, quotes, etc. and trying to force fit them into your arguments does not work. When I mentioned the WW 2 auto CEOs, you say they are not relevant today, because part of auto manufacturing is in other countries. Yet we have higher labor force participation rate today, than back then. Whether CEOs work as heads of auto manufacturers or heads of defense contractors does not take away from their ability to plan and forecast, as imperfect as planning and forecasting always has been.
So how has Boeing been doing lately? They were initially awarded the KC-46 contract in 2011. For a tanker conversion of an existing certified (B767) airframe. Something that Boeing has been doing since AT LEAST the KC-29 in 1948 and KC-97 in 1951. Something they have more experience doing than anyone else in the world. So 13 years later, they still have serious deficiencies with it (a new one being announced six weeks ago:
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ne...-more-tankers/
Some excerpts:
The Air Force has officially recorded nine Category I deficiencies with the KC-46, most of which officially remain open. Boeing executives told reporters in December that some of those open deficiencies are formalities at this stage, the result of infrequent meetings of the KC-46 deficiency board. The issues that led to this latest deficiency report are unrelated to the cargo lock problem that barred the KC-46 from carrying cargo or passengers for three months in 2019. That problem, which was solved and closed out in December 2019, required changes to the cargo pallet locks, which until then, had sometimes come unlocked in flight.
The most prominent Category I deficiencies, however, remain months, if not years, away from being resolved, most prominently the troubled Remote Vision System, an array of cameras and screens the boom operator uses to connect and refuel other aircraft. The current setup can result in “whiteouts” or “blackouts” for the boom operator in certain lighting conditions, heightening the risk of the boom accidentally scraping a receiver aircraft. That is particularly troublesome for aircraft with stealth coatings like the F-35 fighter or B-2 bomber.
Another key deficiency that remains unresolved is a “stiff” boom—some receiver aircraft, particularly the A-10, cannot maintain the thrust against the boom necessary to keep it engaged. As a result, the KC-46 is still not cleared to refuel A-10s.
The rest of the Category I deficiencies are classified as “product quality,” and primarily related to cracks or leaks. Boeing is working on the issues.
Another key deficiency that remains unresolved is a “stiff” boom—some receiver aircraft, particularly the A-10, cannot maintain the thrust against the boom necessary to keep it engaged. As a result, the KC-46 is still not cleared to refuel A-10s.
The rest of the Category I deficiencies are classified as “product quality,” and primarily related to cracks or leaks. Boeing is working on the issues.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/air-force-wont-accept-any-more-boeing-tankers-until-manufacturing-process-is-cleaned-up/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-02/air-force-again-halts-delivery-of-boeing-s-tanker-over-debris?leadSource=uverify%20wall
And as incredible as it may seem, Boeing is continuing to lose money on the contract:
Now let’s talk Lockheed Martin: They designed and built a whole class of Navy ships that is being retired early because the propulsion system is fundamentally flawed.
The USS Detroit, seen above, was commissioned in 2016 and the Navy is giving up on it,Even newer ones are headed for the breakers.
https://www.stripes.com/branches/nav...g-9040428.html
An excerpt:
U.S. Navy officials first announced at a media briefing almost a year ago that nine Freedom-class littoral combat ships would be decommissioned as part of the 2023 fiscal year budget.
“It’s somewhat of an embarrassment,” said Paul Marzello, the Naval Park’s executive director. “It was a happy moment, a proud moment on Dec. 16, 2017, and here it is five and a half years later, and she’s being decommissioned.”
“It is really a disappointment,” said Maurice Naylon, who chaired the commissioning committee. “We were so proud of the way we joined forces for this historic event, and it certainly put a nice sheen on Buffalo’s reputation.”
The Little Rock suffered a major failure at sea in 2020, six weeks after departing Mayport on its first deployment due to a flaw in the propulsion system, according to defensennews.com.
The nine Lockheed Martin-built high-speed vessels were designed to operate in shallow waters, and they were outfitted with some 8,000 computer sensors. All were hit with the propulsion problem. The ships will likely be scrapped or sunk to the bottom of an ocean — the fate of many decommissioned ships.
“It’s somewhat of an embarrassment,” said Paul Marzello, the Naval Park’s executive director. “It was a happy moment, a proud moment on Dec. 16, 2017, and here it is five and a half years later, and she’s being decommissioned.”
“It is really a disappointment,” said Maurice Naylon, who chaired the commissioning committee. “We were so proud of the way we joined forces for this historic event, and it certainly put a nice sheen on Buffalo’s reputation.”
The Little Rock suffered a major failure at sea in 2020, six weeks after departing Mayport on its first deployment due to a flaw in the propulsion system, according to defensennews.com.
The nine Lockheed Martin-built high-speed vessels were designed to operate in shallow waters, and they were outfitted with some 8,000 computer sensors. All were hit with the propulsion problem. The ships will likely be scrapped or sunk to the bottom of an ocean — the fate of many decommissioned ships.
Look, it’s nothing personal. I’m glad your mom was Rosie the Riveter, the country owes her a debt it can never repay. But that was then and this is now. You have a confidence in the auto industry and the CEOs of our five remaining big defense contractors that is unwarranted by their recent performance. Don’t believe me - research it yourself. You’ll find out the truth.
03-15-2023, 08:46 AM
#404
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,406
That might be real important because there is currently an ongoing massive buildup in the PRC industrial base:
https://news.usni.org/2020/10/12/chi...pyard-capacity
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...-new-shipyard/
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...-new-shipyard/
Besides the fact that we have to police the world while Taiwan is in their back yard.
https://news.usni.org/2020/10/12/chi...pyard-capacity
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...-new-shipyard/
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...-new-shipyard/
Besides the fact that we have to police the world while Taiwan is in their back yard.
And we have some time. Hopefully the politicians will make good use of it.
03-15-2023, 09:20 AM
#405
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
MANPADS and most of the munitions we've shipped to UR to date have little relevance in the Pacific. Much as the US Army is scrambling to find relevance in PACOM, it's a maritime and air problem.
And we have some time. Hopefully the politicians will make good use of it.
And we have some time. Hopefully the politicians will make good use of it.
Right now the trends in numbers, readiness, and sustainment are not our friend, and that has been the case for some time:
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/twin-reports-find-us-navy-struggling-with-fleet-management/
03-15-2023, 09:59 AM
#406
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,406
The Marines are building up in Guam. Not to mention the Marine Commandant and the CNO pretty much publicly at odds over amphib ships. Nor does it help that the fleet looks like it will get smaller before it gets larger. But the real issue is the defense industrial base.
Right now the trends in numbers, readiness, and sustainment are not our friend, and that has been the case for some time:
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/twin-reports-find-us-navy-struggling-with-fleet-management/
Right now the trends in numbers, readiness, and sustainment are not our friend, and that has been the case for some time:
https://www.naval-technology.com/features/twin-reports-find-us-navy-struggling-with-fleet-management/
Where there's a will there's a way.
And believe me, the powers that be have carefully considered every bit of hardware we've given UR, with an eye towards efficacy, practicality, and the net benefit of the transaction.
Reducing our ability (slightly) to execute a PAC MCO tonight might be a worthwhile trade if PRC watches Vlad get thoroughly spanked and experiences some deterrence to their own ambitions.
03-15-2023, 10:32 AM
#407
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
We needed public and political awareness, and will, before we can address the mechanics of the problem. For many years we didn't have the former, I'm actually more optimist than I've been in a long time that the tide is turning.
Where there's a will there's a way.
And believe me, the powers that be have carefully considered every bit of hardware we've given UR, with an eye towards efficacy, practicality, and the net benefit of the transaction.
Reducing our ability (slightly) to execute a PAC MCO tonight might be a worthwhile trade if PRC watches Vlad get thoroughly spanked and experiences some deterrence to their own ambitions.
Where there's a will there's a way.
And believe me, the powers that be have carefully considered every bit of hardware we've given UR, with an eye towards efficacy, practicality, and the net benefit of the transaction.
Reducing our ability (slightly) to execute a PAC MCO tonight might be a worthwhile trade if PRC watches Vlad get thoroughly spanked and experiences some deterrence to their own ambitions.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigho...very-soon/amp/
03-15-2023, 11:32 AM
#408
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,406
That would not appear to be the lesson they are learning.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigho...very-soon/amp/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigho...very-soon/amp/
This is a PR stunt, PRC doesn't have too many illusions about RU caps right now.
03-15-2023, 02:10 PM
#409
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
You just made my point. PRC is concerned. Hitching their wagon to RU in this manner at this time hints at a bit of desperation. Especially since RU's high-end military capabilities don't have a lot of credibility right now.
This is a PR stunt, PRC doesn't have too many illusions about RU caps right now.
This is a PR stunt, PRC doesn't have too many illusions about RU caps right now.
I think people forget that in WWII the Germans generally had a technology advantage over us. Clearly the Liberty ships were no prize. But we cranked out a tremendous number of them faster than the U-boats could sink them. A Sherman tank was no match for a Tiger one on one, but seven to one worked pretty well. And an ME-262 could fly rings around anything we had but it really couldn’t cope well with a half dozen P-51s or P-47s. We outproduced Germany into submission.
The Zumwalt might be the best Destroyer in existence but we are going to build a total of what? Three of them, because they are so damn expensive? And how many Gerald Ford class CVNs are we going to be able to afford? Especially since the industrial base is so small there is generally only a single bidder for the contract!
as the old saying goes, quantity has a quality all of its own.
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