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Ukraine conflict

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Old 08-16-2024, 07:07 AM
  #3741  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped
so you say these things, then why do you advocate us not providing aid?

You just said “dominating Europe”. How can it then not be in our best interest to make sure ukraine is the insurmountable roadblock?

you are very confusing
Aid to what end? Someone, some cadre has to LEAD a mission this complex, this risky. Wait & see is standing in for come & see. Get in or cash out. That’s all I got. You have other ideas, let’s hear it.
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Old 08-16-2024, 08:04 AM
  #3742  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
Aid to what end? Someone, some cadre has to LEAD a mission this complex, this risky. Wait & see is standing in for come & see. Get in or cash out. That’s all I got. You have other ideas, let’s hear it.
Should we provide aid to ukraine in the form of old equipment and munitions?
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Old 08-16-2024, 08:10 AM
  #3743  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped
Should we provide aid to ukraine in the form of old equipment and munitions?
Like for almost 3 years? Like I said, this ain’t no chump change detail. Wait it out is Aleppo Syria. And lots of other places no one cares about.
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Old 08-16-2024, 08:46 AM
  #3744  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
Appreciate the counterpoint. Come & See, Das Boot, Lawrence of Arabia. All worth the time. But this is no movie, no rock n roll show. Doesn’t matter the Bolshevik’s justifications. They lie, cheat & steal. They can’t compete in a free world economy. They miscalculated epically on a special operation to reoccupy Ukraine for the primary objective of claiming her resource wealth. Secondary goal, dominating Europe. For which, so far anyway, they are prepared to die in stunning numbers. While we chat here, so enjoyably, this thing slithers on like a monster snake. Moves on its own, anyway it can. 3rd birthday, almost here.
And if we do nothing? Sit on our hands. The snake will stop slithering?
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Old 08-16-2024, 08:56 AM
  #3745  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
Like for almost 3 years? Like I said, this ain’t no chump change detail. Wait it out is Aleppo Syria. And lots of other places no one cares about.
this is not an answer. And you left out the part where our RU propaganda driven maga crowd blocked aid at an absolute critical juncture.

So, please have the integrity to answer the question. Stop obfuscating

Should the US provide aid in the form of old equipment/munitions, as well as a constant supply of consumables?


about to start a 3 day greenie so im all ears gang
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Old 08-16-2024, 08:57 AM
  #3746  
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Originally Posted by Lowslung
And if we do nothing? Sit on our hands. The snake will stop slithering?
It will not. Snakes shed skin, true. Never stop being snakes. Can’t underestimate their capacity to strike. Fresh carcasses for the Caucasus, no prob. They know what it takes to win. Be prepared for that.
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Old 08-17-2024, 05:38 AM
  #3747  
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Oh me oh my! The Russians are bad people, it will never stop...it's going to go on forever. For that reason we should just stop supporting and defending others and just 'let Russia be Russia.'
Fantastic reasoning there. Well, and the cost. The cost! Russia is being decimated and exposed, once again, as militarily inept AND a morally vacant country. At the cost of less than 5% of our budget. Russia can't keep up the expentiture is the West/NATO nations are willing to supply the Ukrainians and allow the Ukrainians to fight with all the tools at their disposal.
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Old 08-17-2024, 06:00 AM
  #3748  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback
Oh me oh my! The Russians are bad people, it will never stop...it's going to go on forever. For that reason we should just stop supporting and defending others and just 'let Russia be Russia.'
Fantastic reasoning there. Well, and the cost. The cost! Russia is being decimated and exposed, once again, as militarily inept AND a morally vacant country. At the cost of less than 5% of our budget. Russia can't keep up the expentiture is the West/NATO nations are willing to supply the Ukrainians and allow the Ukrainians to fight with all the tools at their disposal.
Except they aren’t all exactly willing. Are they? Some folks can afford not to notice. Including a few $450 hr. big foot line holders. Stop the war.
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Old 08-17-2024, 06:11 AM
  #3749  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
Except they aren’t all exactly willing. Are they? Some folks can afford not to notice. Including a few $450 hr. big foot line holders. Stop the war.
More to the point, Ukraine ain't exactly winning.

From the WaPo:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-offensive-derails-secret-efforts-for-partial-cease-fire-with-russia-officials-say/ar-AA1oX8Vr

Excerpts:

For more than a year, Russia has pounded Ukraine’s power grid with a barrage of cruise missiles and drone strikes, causing irreparable damage to power stations and rolling blackouts across the country. Meanwhile, Ukraine has struck Russia’s oil facilities with long-range drone attacks that have set ablaze refineries, depots and reservoirs, reducing Moscow’s oil refining by an estimated 15 percent and raising gas prices around the world.

Some involved in the negotiations hoped they could lead to a more comprehensive agreement to end the war, according to the officials who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive diplomacy.

The diplomat briefed on the talks said Kyiv and Moscow had both signaled their readiness to accept the arrangement in the lead-up to the summit. But senior officials in Kyiv had mixed expectations about whether the negotiations could succeed, with some putting the odds at 20 percent and others anticipating even worse prospects, according to two people familiar with the talks, even if the Kursk assault had not happened. But the planned talks and potential agreement — now on hold — raise the stakes for Zelensky’s gamble.

One of the reasons Ukrainian officials doubted Russia’s sincerity is its extensive bombing campaign of Ukrainian energy infrastructure in recent weeks. More bombardment could leave civilians without power for hours each day during the frigid winter months.

“We have one chance to get through this winter, and that’s if the Russians won’t launch any new attacks on the grid,” an Ukrainian official who was briefed on the talks said.

Kyiv’s move to push into Russia, which has occupied roughly 20 percent of Ukraine, was intended in part to give Ukraine more leverage for any future negotiations, Ukrainian and Western officials have said.

Military analysts have expressed skepticism that Ukrainian forces can maintain control of the Russian territory. Moscow has also continued to make gains in eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk region and has not diverted troops from there to defend the new Ukrainian assault.

But while Kyiv might have improved its future negotiating position with the land grab, the likelihood of imminent peace talks appears diminished. Putin publicly vowed this week not to soften his position on negotiations because of the assault on Russian territory.

The diplomat familiar with the talks said that Qatar has been discussing the arrangement for an energy strike moratorium with Kyiv and Moscow for the past two months. The official said the two sides agreed to a summit in Doha with just minor details left to be worked out.

“After Kursk, the Russians balked,” another person familiar with the talks said.

A Russian academic with close ties to senior Russian diplomats signaled that Putin would not be in the mood to make a deal after the Kursk offensive.

“You know our Russian leadership usually does not make any compromises under pressure,” the person said.

The academic added that Russia might be more willing to consider an energy infrastructure deal as a way to lure Kyiv to broader cease-fire talks. Otherwise, he said, Moscow could be less motivated since it believed it could inflict more damage on Ukrainian energy infrastructure than Kyiv was able to on Russian oil refineries.

Russia’s strikes on Ukraine’s power grid have been a brutally effective tactic. Daily life for Ukrainians who live far from the front line has been disrupted by blackoutsthat can last hours. The outages have also severely hurt an economy already crippled by war. Some people who have moved abroad cite the power instability as a chief reason.

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Old 08-17-2024, 06:43 AM
  #3750  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
More to the point, Ukraine ain't exactly winning.
I know. Just love the 'but it's only 5% budget' boys. They same budget paying gazillions in debt service on prior wars gone wrong. Maybe save a little for what comes next? Russia in revolt and ruin won't simply vanish. Christ what a mess.
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