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Old 02-21-2023, 07:25 AM
  #341  
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Default This sure seems like…

…a couple of old f@rts both upping the ante confident the other guy will back down first.



One can only hope one of them is right.
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:30 AM
  #342  
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RU has not been in compliance for quite some time. They didn't bother to withdraw before in the vague hope that domestic politics would drive unilateral compliance on our part.

Withdrawal now is intended to scare shadow-flinching euro-lefties, in hopes of some Neville-ish accommodation on their part.
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:45 AM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
RU has not been in compliance for quite some time. They didn't bother to withdraw before in the vague hope that domestic politics would drive unilateral compliance on our part.

Withdrawal now is intended to scare shadow-flinching euro-lefties, in hopes of some Neville-ish accommodation on their part.
According to Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis, Putin’s saber rattling tactics are working.

https://www.politico.eu/article/west...ry-in-ukraine/

An excerpt:





“My main question is why haven’t we ever had a conversation about the end goal? The only discussions or ideas that get floated around are about negotiations and peace processes — and all that makes a lot of people in my part of Europe quite nervous. Okay, so we talk about victory, and we talk about standing with Ukraine to the very end — but let’s also talk about this.”

According to Landsbergis, military experts know exactly what’s needed to finish the job. “It’s mathematics,” he said.

But without having agreed on objectives, everything is ad hoc — without a real attempt to match equipment and munitions, missiles and armor — and it’s left to Ukraine to push for whatever it can secure. “So, we ambiguously commit to Ukrainian victory, but do not go into detail,” he added.

Interestingly, during a similarly fateful February in 1941, Britain’s Winston Churchill gave a take-stock speech to the House of Commons, noting that “In wartime, there is a lot to be said for the motto: ‘Deeds, not words.’ All the same, it is a good thing to look around from time to time and take stock, and certainly our affairs have prospered in several directions during these last four or five months, far better than most of us would have ventured to hope.”
Which gets us back to logistics…
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:43 PM
  #344  
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Default Logistics and sustainment…

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-war-uk...000026797.html

An excerpt:

Last summer brought another wake-up call. As Washington sent Ukraine Javelin anti-tank missiles and Stinger surface-to-air missiles, along with howitzers and ammunition, it began to deplete its own stockpiles, demonstrating its own lack of resilience.

A third shock as regards US ability to counter China is only now dawning, according to Flournoy, a potential future contender for Secretary of Defense: the presence of Chinese-made components throughout defense supply chains that create “unacceptable dependencies if not vulnerabilities.”

“Most prime contractors can’t even tell you how much Chinese content is in their systems, ranging from semiconductors to displays to nuts and bolts,” she said.

The Defense Department acknowledged that the defense industrial base faces many of the same supply-chain challenges as other sectors. “Lead times from ordering a component to delivery drive production timelines,” said spokesman Jeff Jurgensen. “To offset long lead times, the Department is making sustained investments to expand production capacity and stockpile critical weapons and materials.”

The defense industry’s problems have crystallized into a matter of urgency over the last 18 months, but they date back decades.

In the wake of the Soviet Union’s fall, US politicians hoped to cash in on the “peace dividend,” the promise of economic benefits from reduced defense spending. Then-Deputy Secretary of Defense William Perry laid out what this would mean for the industry at a dinner now known as the “last supper,” in which he told executives to consolidate or face extinction.

Consolidate they did. The defense sector has moved from more than 70 aerospace and defense “prime contractors” that worked directly with the government in 1980 to just 5 by the early 2000s, the same number as today: Lockheed Martin Corp., Raytheon Technologies Corp., General Dynamics Corp., Northrop Grumman Corp., and Boeing.
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Old 02-22-2023, 07:07 AM
  #345  
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Current state of affairs:

Military: We can't get anyone to join, and most American males of military age wouldn't even pass the fitness test.

DC Swamp: WAR WAR WAR.

Corporate America: We don't care if China does the same thing in Taiwan that Russia is doing in Ukraine and has concentration camps, we're going to keep doing business with them and having them operate our battery factories in the USA.
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Old 02-22-2023, 04:01 PM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by chihuahua
Current state of affairs: DC Swamp: WAR WAR
Sure seems that way. Meanwhile the CIC mumbles/stumbles on saying ‘this could end tomorrow if only one person wanted it to.’ Really?? Didn’t get a chance to tour the smoking holes that used to be cities on your see Eastern Europe by Rail pass? There is no going back. The enemy is very much all in on this deal until they get what they’re after. Or worse. The stage is set no matter how you call it.
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Old 02-22-2023, 04:27 PM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
The enemy is very much all in on this deal until they get what they’re after. Or worse. The stage is set no matter how you call it.
It really doesn’t matter if WE believe Putin to be evil or insane or whatever, he has continuing support from within his own country. That gives him considerable leeway.

Right now BOTH sides are upping the ante, like a couple of idiots playing chicken, each apparently counting on the other to be the rational adult in the room and be the first to back off or swerve aside. And maybe that WILL happen. But anybody that thinks that outcome is guaranteed is an idiot.

And it isn’t as simple as the propagandists on either (both actually) side of this make it out to be. Nobody is really in control at this point - not on either side.
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Old 02-22-2023, 08:33 PM
  #348  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
It really doesn’t matter if WE believe Putin to be evil or insane or whatever, he has continuing support from within his own country. That gives him considerable leeway..
No, it doesn’t matter.

Liberation of the Korean peninsula 53? No
Cuba 61? No hay
Republic of Vietnam 75? Hell no
Iraq 2011? Nah
20 years Afghanistan? WTF was that?

When the Kremlin claims the objective achieved, rhetoric might at some point turn to drafting ceasefire language. Not one day sooner.
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Old 02-23-2023, 05:25 AM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Right now BOTH sides are upping the ante, like a couple of idiots playing chicken, each apparently counting on the other to be the rational adult in the room and be the first to back off or swerve aside.
Playing chicken?!?! There’s one side invading, unprovoked lies, to reclaim a sovereign state, back into the fold of the USSR. Then you have a side taking every means available to protect their Sovereignty.
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Old 02-23-2023, 07:48 AM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by captjns
Playing chicken?!?! There’s one side invading, unprovoked lies, to reclaim a sovereign state, back into the fold of the USSR. Then you have a side taking every means available to protect their Sovereignty.
Ukraine is at this point less a “side” than a victim. Their infrastructure is in ruins, their economy devastated and their casualties relative to their population far higher than for Russia. Meanwhile, the “crippling international sanctions” have caused - according to the World Bank - only about a 3% loss in Russian GDP.

The “sides” are the Russians and US/NATO, both of whom currently seem willing to fight to the last Ukrainian. The conditions being placed upon the use of the weapons being given to the Ukraine and the type of weapons themselves underscore that Ukraine is only being permitted to fight a defensive war on their own territory with a long common border behind which Russia can stage with impunity.

Guaranteeing an opponent a safe haven adjacent to the battle did not work in Korea, it did not work in Vietnam, it did not work in Afghanistan. Expecting it to work in the Ukraine while permitting the Russians safe havens in both Russia and Belarus seems unlikely to work in this case. That’s a 2000 mile long border.

So I ask you, what’s the end game here? How does this stop? Or does it literally just go on until the last Ukrainian is dead or fled? Seven million Ukrainians have already left for the EU and another million or so are (voluntarily or involuntarily) in Russia or Belarus. And months ago, Zelensky was saying the restoration bill to repair the damage was over $1 Trillion US.

And Putin still seems firmly in control.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ng/ar-AA17P6vI

So how does this end? And then what? Because when it does, that 2000 mile border will still be there.
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