ReluctantEskimo

Translation: "I couldn't win on points, so I digressed into another hyperlink vomitus purge."

Excargodog

Nope.

Translation: Time to get back to the topic of the thread rather than dealing with childish Sophists. You got anything to contribute to the topic of the thread? You know, happenings in the Ukraine conflict?

Sliceback

On day 842 of Russia's successful 3 day planned invasion of Ukraine a Russia tank made a wrong turn.

The best and brightest in Russia thought the assumed 3rd best army in the world would achieve their goals in 72 hrs. They were off by over 20,136 hrs and it's increasing by every day. The world, once again, has been shown Russia's incompetence, criminal leadership, brutality against innocent victims, all in the pretension of protecting Ukrainians from the Nazi's. Russian solder to Ukrainian women - "where are the Nazi's?" Women - "where are the Nazi's? You're an idiot. There's no Nazi's here. YOU'RE THE NAZI." I wonder if the Russian soldiers raped them, tortured, or killed them? Nothing like being a peace keeper and killing the innocent. Now we're on to excuse #17 (?) for the reasons to invade Ukraine as the first 16 were absolute B.S.

https://www.facebook.com/10001561611...1374404241056/

Sliceback

Keep in mind about 10-15% of people don't believe anyone walked on the moon. Facts don't matter, they just don't believe it and you're not going to change their mind.

ReluctantEskimo

This is your daily reminder that

A stalemate goes to the Defender.

Excargodog

Seriously? Who is being hurt worst in this war?

https://visitukraine.today/blog/1874...e-russian-army

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60610840

https://<a href="http://www.nasdaq.c...aine-vs-russia

ReluctantEskimo

I'd say unequivocally Russia.

They have lost tremendous status, blood, and treasure. Failed to achieve all but a fraction of their objectives. And have driven themselves into a quagmire that is two years and counting.

Yes you can point to Eastern Ukraine and say look at the craters. But buildings will be rebuilt and fields replanted.

Russia will never recover from this.

METO Guido

People also don’t return like Lazarus from the crypt. Gone or blown to parts missing, permanent.

ReluctantEskimo

Russia conducting missile strikes on shopping malls and schools while Ukraine retaliates on strategic targets.

Killing civilians doesn't get them any closer to Kyiv.

MaxQ

Afghanistan defeated both the former Soviet Union and then the USA in a war in which they didn't militarily have a chance.

The Viet Minh defeated France in the 50's.

Combined forces of the Viet Cong and NVA defeated the combined forces of ARVN and the USA.

In these 3 examples the defeated forces had overwhelming superiority in both armaments and logistics. And yet, in the end, they failed to prevail.
In spite of tactically winning many battles, having lopsided kill/casualty ratios in their favor, and an almost limitless (by comparison) amount of material advantage/logistical advantage, the USSR, France, and the USA , in the end, lost.

Why? My opinions (I am not a military trained veteran) are that:

1.USSR, France, and the USA (and ARVN too, for that matter) never understood what the war(s) were about.
2. They faced an enemy who understood what the war was about, and why they fought and sacrificed.
3. The political support of the people eventually overcame the material/logistical advantages of their enemies.
4. See #3: because of that, the weaker forces always controlled the countryside.
5. The stronger forces never understood their enemies and what motivated them. The USSR, France, and the USA never understood they were involved in a colonial war.
They never understood the history nor the National/Tribal ethos of their enemies. Hence they lost.

In my past I was surrounded by stories of the Home Army in Poland and the long fight against the Germans, the Russians,and then again later the Russian's (USSR). While they could not prevail, as long as they had the support and protection of the people they also would never lose.
The restance fighters in Soviet Belarus effectively stopped the implementation of the Nazi's Generalplan Ost(East) in WW2. That success was a cog in Germany's defeat, but more importantly saved 25 to 45 million from a premature death.
The successes of these resistance movements were due to having the overwhelming support of the people, combined with forces willing to sacrifice all, because they understood the consequences their people would suffer if they failed.

What does this have to do with Ukraine/Russia?
Everything.
It is a colonial war. The Ukrainians know this even if the Russian's don't.
Even if defeated in a conventional war, Russia will be faced with a protracted guerrilla war with an enemy who would have the support of the people.

What I now write will anger some from both sides of this argument.
When I read the comments from career officers that focus on certain aspects to the exclusion of intangibles that I write about, I gain some understanding why the USA has so often failed to achieve its political objectives.
Putting numbers in a computer/war game do not begin to explain a system as complex as human resistance to submission.

Knowledge without understanding or morality, usually, in the long run, fails.
While individuals with no concern for others will out compete other individuals, if a society has an ethos of this behavior then that society will eventually be out competed by the society that has cohesion and concern for its fellow members.
Anyone with a bit of knowledge of present day Russia knows which societal values prevail there.