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Old 02-11-2023, 07:28 AM
  #321  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped
What’s that vlad? I can’t hear you over the click clacking if the other Russian hackers sitting next to you. Or it could be tucker blaring in the background. Not sure
The fact you would compare a RAND study - an organization funded originally by the USAF in 1947 and used ever since by by the military and Congress for objective analysis of military and economic issues affecting the US of being Russian propaganda pretty much indicates your own ignorance and/or bias for everyone to see. And certainly everyone who read a very objective analysis.

The Origins of RAND

World War II revealed the importance of technology research and development for success on the battlefield. It also drew attention to the wide range of scientists and academics outside the military who made such development possible.

As the war drew to a close, it became clear that complete and permanent peace might not be assured. Forward-looking individuals in the War Department, the Office of Scientific Research and Development, and industry thus began to discuss the need for a private organization to connect military planning with research and development decisions.

Commanding General of the Army Air Force H. H. “Hap” Arnold articulated this need in a report to the Secretary of War:
“During this war, the Army, Army Air Forces, and the Navy have made unprecedented use of scientific and industrial resources. The conclusion is inescapable that we have not yet established the balance necessary to insure the continuance of teamwork among the military, other government agencies, industry, and the universities. Scientific planning must be years in advance of the actual research and development work.”Other key players involved in the formation of this new organization were Major General Curtis LeMay; General Lauris Norstad, Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Plans; Edward Bowles of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, consultant to the Secretary of War; Donald Douglas, president of the Douglas Aircraft Company; Arthur Raymond, chief engineer at Douglas; and Franklin Collbohm, Raymond's assistant.

An Independent Nonprofit Organization

Hand-tinted photo of the original RAND building at 1700 Main Street in Santa Monica, California, circa 1960s

RAND Archives

By late 1947, it seemed that Project RAND should consider separating from Douglas. (It was already operating fairly autonomously.) In February 1948, the chief of staff of the newly created U.S. Air Force wrote a letter to the president of Douglas that approved the evolution of Project RAND into an independent, nonprofit corporation. H. Rowan Gaither, Jr., a prominent San Francisco attorney who later served as president and then as chairman of the board of the Ford Foundation, was retained as legal counsel to determine the best means of setting up an independent RAND.

On May 14, 1948, RAND was incorporated as a nonprofit corporation under the laws of the State of California. The articles of incorporation set forth RAND's purpose in language that was both remarkably brief and breathtakingly broad:
To further and promote scientific, educational, and charitable purposes, all for the public welfare and security of the United States of America.

Founding Board of Trustees

RAND's original board of trustees was composed of three signatories and eight other prominent individuals from academia and industry.
Franklin Collbohm (signatory)President, RAND CorporationH. Rowan Gaither, Jr. (signatory)AttorneyL.J. Henderson, Jr. (signatory)Associate director, RAND CorporationCharles DollardPresident, Carnegie Corporation of New YorkLee A. DubridgePresident, California Institute of TechnologyJohn A. HutchesonDirector, research laboratories, Westinghouse Electric CorporationAlfred L. LoomisScientistPhilip M. MorsePhysicist, Massachusetts Institute of TechnologyFrederick F. StephanProfessor of social statistics and director, Office of Survey Research and Statistics, Princeton UniversityGeorge D. StoddardPresident, University of IllinoisClyde WilliamsDirector, Battelle Memorial InstituteInformal discussions with representatives of the Ford Foundation led to an agreement in July 1948 for an interest-free loan from the foundation and its guarantee of a private bank loan to RAND. A total of $1 million was secured for operating the new corporation.

Four years later, an expansion of the foundation's loan enabled the establishment of a RAND-sponsored research program, which furnished staff with the means to conduct small, nonmilitary research projects. This marked the beginning of the diversification of RAND's agenda and was the first of many grants by the Ford Foundation to support important new RAND research initiatives.

On November 1, 1948, the Project RAND contract was formally transferred from the Douglas Aircraft Company to the RAND Corporation
Anyone seeking objectivity about the Ukraine situation ought to take the time to read the report. The OP, clearly not interested in objectivity, likely didn’t even bother.
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Old 02-11-2023, 08:03 AM
  #322  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
The fact you would compare a RAND study - an organization funded originally by the USAF in 1947 and used ever since by by the military and Congress for objective analysis of military and economic issues affecting the US of being Russian propaganda pretty much indicates your own ignorance and/or bias for everyone to see. And certainly everyone who read a very objective analysis.



Anyone seeking objectivity about the Ukraine situation ought to take the time to read the report. The OP, clearly not interested in objectivity, likely didn’t even bother.
Oh vlad, vlad my friend, the reason I know you are a Russian troll is you couldn’t even conduct yourself like a civilized human. You see an educated American that claims to have been in the Air Force would have had control of their emotions when having a discussion. For example a civilized human would have said “interesting points, I disagree with you regarding……”, or maybe they would have said “ unfortunately I have to respectfully disagree with you because I believe xxxx, backed up by xxx”.

Instead vlad you use the tactics of your master tucker (or should I say puppet) and called me a name. Since you clearly watch tucker all day in that dirty basement in Moscow you believe that the angry little fear peddling troll preying on the minds of our old weak willed men is how we do business here in America.

I can assure you vlad, though we have a media money driven propaganda machine entrenched in the minds of our weak older generation, most Americans do not disregard the sacrifices of our fallen soldiers in the name of the fight against tyranny. We understand that if a democratic nation is being invaded by the very country we have fought so valiantly against for the last 60 years is asking for help, then we are honor bound to render it. But what would you know about honor.

Fear not vlad, we are coming for you. We will lead the charge to break the backs of evil tyrants though this struggle has only just been won in the last 1% of recorded history. Though we have a few weak cowardly humans that are easily preyed upon by the likes of snake oil salesmen like Mr. Tucker, we will not be the good men that stand by and do nothing.

Play uncivil games, win uncivil prizes. You are sad with your defeatism. Have fun catching more himars rounds or staring a 2a7 in the face.
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Old 02-13-2023, 05:00 PM
  #323  
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Default Logistics…

Logistics still wins (or loses) wars…

BRUSSELS (AP) — NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg warned Monday that Ukraine is using up ammunition far faster than its allies can provide it and putting pressure on Western defense industries, just as Russia ramps up its military offensive.

“The war in Ukraine is consuming an enormous amount of munitions and depleting allied stockpiles,” Stoltenberg said. “The current rate of Ukraine’s ammunition expenditure is many times higher than our current rate of production. This puts our defense industries under strain.”

According to some estimates, Ukraine is firing up to 6,000-7,000 artillery shells each day, around a third of the daily amount that Russia is using almost one year into the war.

Speaking on the eve of a two-day meeting of NATO defense ministers, Stoltenberg said the waiting time for the supply of “large-caliber ammunition has increased from 12 to 28 months,” and that “orders placed today would only be delivered two-and-a-half years later.”
https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...baee9da5e35345
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Old 02-14-2023, 08:32 AM
  #324  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/russ...y-ukraine-war/

An excerpt:

Russia has begun deploying tactical nuclear weapon-armed vessels in the Baltic Sea for the first time in the last 30 years, the Norwegian Intelligence Service said in its annual report.

“The key part of the nuclear potential is on the submarines and surface ships of the Northern Fleet,” the Norwegian intel noted.

The Northern Fleet warships regularly went to sea with nuclear weapons during the Cold War era, but this is the first time the modern Russian Federation has done the same, the report added
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Old 02-14-2023, 09:14 AM
  #325  
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Default Logistics again rears its head…



An excerpt:

Laura Cooper, the Pentagon’s top policy official for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia issues, said in a recent interview that “with every single capability that we provide, whether you’re talking, you know, HIMARS or you’re talking a particular kind of missile or ammunition, we’re always looking at the availability of our stocks, we’re looking at production considerations, and so that’s true of every capability, and we make decisions accordingly.”

Lockheed Martin has produced about 4,000 ATACMS in various configurations over the past two decades. Some of those missiles have been sold to allied nations, which bought the missile for their own multiple rocket launcher systems. Around 600 were fired by U.S. forces in combat during the Persian Gulf War and the Iraq War.
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Old 02-16-2023, 10:26 AM
  #326  
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Guys please lay off the insults.

There's a spectrum between isolationism and imperialism. Where you fall on that is an individual preference and there aren't any absolute right or wrong answers as long as you're not too close to one extreme or the other. We don't have a crystal ball.
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Old 02-16-2023, 12:06 PM
  #327  
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I hear you Rick, the dude was uncivil and didn’t have the courage or maturity to apologize. I certainly did when I was called on it.

Play uncivil games, win uncivil prizes

At the end of the day time will tell. People who are more educated than any of us and in the thick of it don’t agree that isolation is a winning strategy. All that aside….the Russian offensive has already stalled out lol…..it’s going to be awesome to watch the Ukrainians kick their ass back to the border this summer
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Old 02-16-2023, 12:51 PM
  #328  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Guys please lay off the insults.

There's a spectrum between isolationism and imperialism. Where you fall on that is an individual preference and there aren't any absolute right or wrong answers as long as you're not too close to one extreme or the other. We don't have a crystal ball.

Indeed.

It’s called realpolitik, an acknowledgement that some fights just aren’t worth fighting and the reason we didn’t’t go to war against the USSR to free the Warsaw Pact nations from the end of WWII until the USSR pretty much caved in in the early 90s. Why we didn’t help Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in1968 or the Chinese protestors in Tiananmen Square in 1989. And why even now we are starting to discourage the Ukraine from talking about taking the Crimea back.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/15/blinken-crimea-ukraine-putin-

00083149

And yeah, it means that some fights really aren’t worth the potential risks and costs of fighting them.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:33 PM
  #329  
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https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/17/ukraine-wont-militarily-retake-crimea-top-democrat-00083492
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:54 PM
  #330  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Indeed.

It’s called realpolitik, an acknowledgement that some fights just aren’t worth fighting and the reason we didn’t’t go to war against the USSR to free the Warsaw Pact nations from the end of WWII until the USSR pretty much caved in in the early 90s. Why we didn’t help Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in1968 or the Chinese protestors in Tiananmen Square in 1989. And why even now we are starting to discourage the Ukraine from talking about taking the Crimea back.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/15/blinken-crimea-ukraine-putin-

00083149

And yeah, it means that some fights really aren’t worth the potential risks and costs of fighting them.
I think our reality is that we tend to try to do the moral thing, informed by realpolitik since the opinion and finances of the people who die and pay for such expeditions does matter in the long run.

Other nations tend to operate more on realpolitik, informed by morality since sometimes their voters care about that (the ones that actually have real elections anyway).
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