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Old 06-05-2024, 02:38 PM
  #3231  
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Default Sanctions will have lasting effects

https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/...the-sanctions/

“The main consequences of the sanctions for Gazprom and the energy industry are the contraction of export volumes, which will be restored to the 2020 level no earlier than 2035,” the authors of the document wrote. The 151-page report, commissioned by company management and compiled late last year, is among the most candid acknowledgments yet of how Western sanctions imposed in response to Russia's war have damaged Gazprom and the broader Russian energy sector, according to the “Financial Times”.
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Old 06-05-2024, 03:40 PM
  #3232  
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Economic damage? Sure, sanctions do that. But the problem with sanctions is that for any voluntary transaction to occur in an open market BOTH SIDES must feel they are gaining by the transaction. When you institute sanctions, BOTH SIDES lose.

It isn't quite the same as taking out the other guys thermal power plant with a missile or refinery with a drone. And ultimately a sanctioned product will find other markets. Not so a destroyed dam, power plant, or refinery.


Infrastructure’s critical importance is precisely why it’s so often targeted during war. Destroying factories, bridges and power plants thwarts a country’s warfighting capacity. At the same time, it undermines a government’s ability to offer basic public services. It’s no surprise, then, that Russia has systematically attacked Ukraine’s transportation networks and energy production since the start of the invasion.

The damage has been catastrophic. An estimated $100 billion worth of infrastructure was destroyed in the war’s first month alone. Now, as the conflict enters its third year, at least half of the country’s energy grid and one-third of its transportation networks have been damaged as a result of Russian attacks.

And the situation continues to escalate. Drone and missile strikes throughout early 2024 have been aimed directly at Ukrainian power generation and distribution, reducing energy companies’ output by up to 80% and leaving nearly 2 million people without power.
​​​​​​​https://theconversation.com/the-pric...en-more-229670

Last edited by Excargodog; 06-05-2024 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 06-05-2024, 03:53 PM
  #3233  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Economic damage? Sure, sanctions do that. But the problem with sanctions is that for any voluntary transaction to occur in an open market BOTH SIDES must feel they are gaining by the transaction. When you institute sanctions, BOTH SIDES lose.

It isn't quite the same as taking out the other guys thermal power plant with a missile or refinery with a drone. And ultimately a sanctioned product will find other markets. Not so a destroyed dam, power plant, or refinery.
It doesn't hit both sides equally. Western Europe has already weaned itself off Russian gas.

But sure, keep talking in absolutes because this news doesn't help your cause.
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Old 06-05-2024, 03:54 PM
  #3234  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
It doesn't hit both sides equally. Western Europe has already weaned itself off Russian gas.

But sure, keep talking in absolutes because this news doesn't help your cause.
Nobody is talking in absolutes, but it's ludicrous to imply that Russia has taken equal damage to Ukraine.
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Old 06-05-2024, 04:05 PM
  #3235  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Nobody is talking in absolutes, but it's ludicrous to imply that Russia has taken equal damage to Ukraine.
You're all over the place today. You've pivoted from "Sanctions hurt both sides," meaning buyer and seller... to "attacking infrastructure is worse." And if I recall, you've repeatedly claimed that "sanctions don't work." This article is evidence to the contrary.

Let me reiterate before we go down one of your rabbit holes again, the buyers are just fine. And Russia needs over a decade to recover to pre-war levels of gas sales.
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Old 06-05-2024, 05:50 PM
  #3236  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
You're all over the place today. You've pivoted from "Sanctions hurt both sides," meaning buyer and seller... to "attacking infrastructure is worse." And if I recall, you've repeatedly claimed that "sanctions don't work." This article is evidence to the contrary.

Let me reiterate before we go down one of your rabbit holes again, the buyers are just fine. And Russia needs over a decade to recover to pre-war levels of gas sales.
The buyers are buying more expensive gas and shipping it in from elsewhere which hurts them. The Russians have benefited from new markets and they are selling more gas - albeit at a lower price. which doesn't necessarily mean that Gasprom hasn't been hurt - just as their clients have - by the sanctions


An article from today:

https://www.energyconnects.com/news/...-to-sanctions/

Russia Oil Revenue Rose 50% in May as Nation Adapts to Sanctions

By Bloomberg

Jun 05, 2024

Excerpts:

Bloomberg) -- Russia’s oil proceeds to the state budget increased almost 50% in May from a year ago, as its crude prices rose and the nation adapted to international sanctions.

Oil-related taxes rose to 632.5 billion rubles ($7.1 billion) last month, according to Bloomberg calculations based on Finance Ministry data. Total oil and gas proceeds increased 39% to 793.7 billion rubles, the ministry said.

The revenue spike follows higher prices for Urals crude, Russia’s key export blend. The ministry calculated May taxes based on the Urals price of $74.98 a barrel, up from $58.63 a year ago. The blend’s discount to the global Brent benchmark has narrowed, even amid a price cap imposed by the Group of Seven nations.

The G-7 measure aims to reduce the inflow of petrodollars — key to financing the Kremlin’s war against Ukraine — by limiting access to western shipping and insurance services, while still keeping Russian on the global market. Moscow has adapted to restrictions, including a European Union ban on Russian oil imports, by using a massive shadow fleet of tankers and selling its oil to Asian clients.

On a monthly basis, oil and gas budget proceeds actually declined by more than 35% in May, according to Bloomberg calculations. The drop reflects the fact that one of Russia’s key oil taxes — the so called profit-based levy — is paid four times a year, in March, April, July and October.

Russia’s oil revenues last month could have been higher if they hadn’t been dented by enormous subsidies to the nation’s fuel producers. The government paid out almost 202 billion rubles to companies for domestic supplies of diesel and gasoline, according to the Finance Ministry. The payments partially compensate refiners for the difference in car fuel prices in Russia and abroad.

Lower Expectations

Even with oil and gas revenues higher annually, Moscow has proposed trimming the total 2024 outlook for earnings from the industry. The budget is now expected to receive 10.99 trillion rubles from the industry this year, compared to an earlier estimate of 11.5 trillion rubles, a draft amendment to the nation’s finances shows.



The downward revision comes as the government projects lower export prices for Russian crude and natural gas for this year, acknowledging that price spikes seen in 2022 are long over, according to the draft amendment, published on a parliamentary website.

Russian crude is now expected to trade at about $65 a barrel this year, compared to an earlier projection of $71.30. The average export price of gas is set at $252.80 per thousand cubic meters, down nearly 6% from the current version of budgetary projections.

Global oil prices, which are traditionally higher than the price of Urals, are now near a four-month low amid slow demand growth. The risk premium that emerged due to the war in the Middle East have also fizzled out.

A decision on Sunday by Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and its partners — which include Russia — to gradually restore some production from October is adding to market concerns of a potential supply overhang.

©2024 Bloomberg L.P.

By Bloomberg News




But don't take my word for it. Ask any economist. Sanctions - like tracer bullets - work both ways...
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Old 06-06-2024, 08:54 AM
  #3237  
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This is starting to feel like a couple of testosterone fueled teenagers playing a game of chicken...

Russia deploying air and sea assets for military exercises in Caribbean, U.S. official says

Michael Wilner
Wed, June 5, 2024 at 4:00 PM PDT·3 min read
436
[size=33px]
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-de...230000018.html[/size]
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Old 06-07-2024, 05:02 AM
  #3238  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
Let me reiterate before we go down one of your rabbit holes again, the buyers are just fine. And Russia needs over a decade to recover to pre-war levels of gas sales.
https://i.ibb.co/XYMQwqd/IMG-7253.jpghttps://ibb.co/Vw51Ksh]https://i.ibb.co/XYMQwqd/IMG-7253.jpg[/url]

Except the buyers are NOT just fine. While Gazprom may indeed need time (and at least a couple of new pipelines to recover to pre war levels of sales, Europe may never return to prewar prices for gas - having a lasting effect on their economy


and as the BBC notes, right now Russia's economy is among the fastest growing in Europe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3DW2i7uXC8
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Old 06-07-2024, 10:25 PM
  #3239  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
https://i.ibb.co/XYMQwqd/IMG-7253.jpghttps://ibb.co/Vw51Ksh]https://i.ibb.co/XYMQwqd/IMG-7253.jpg

Except the buyers are NOT just fine. While Gazprom may indeed need time (and at least a couple of new pipelines to recover to pre war levels of sales, Europe may never return to prewar prices for gas - having a lasting effect on their economy


and as the BBC notes, right now Russia's economy is among the fastest growing in Europe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3DW2i7uXC8
The cost of gas is irrelevant if you no longer need it.

https://commission.europa.eu/strateg...ergy-europe_en
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Old 06-08-2024, 05:19 AM
  #3240  
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Absolutely if you just go without. But the whole so-called "green deal" in the EU Is collapsing politically:

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/b...een-deal-fail/

So yeah, they are consuming 18% less, but that's largely because they are paying a whole lot more for the gas they are buying - now largely liquified natural gas shipped from the US.

https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/e...t-war-outlook/

An excerpt:

Likely: Short-term opportunities

The war in Ukraine and the disruption of Russian gas pipeline supplies to Europe have created at least a short-term opportunity for LNG suppliers to fill Europe’s gas consumption gap. The continent has a well-established infrastructure for LNG receiving terminals, with more planned following the war.

However, whether Europe will be a stable long-term customer – let alone a growing one – depends on several factors. These primarily include the alternative gas supply options available from within Europe (including supply from alternative fuels); the evolution of European gas demand, particularly whether ambitious policy targets can be met; and the availability as well as price of alternative energy sources.

Less likely: Long-term growth

The REPowerEU plan implies that there may be little or even no scope to increase imports of LNG over the longer term (beyond 2030). However, the targets in that plan look rather aspirational. For instance, to achieve them, the roll-out of wind and solar power through 2030 will have to exceed four times the historic growth rate for wind and six times the historic rate for solar.

The potential long-term demand for natural gas, and LNG in particular, is therefore linked to the question of how widely Europe will miss its policy targets. This is what many LNG exporters are now trying to figure out.
Seriously, there was a time when some EU countries like France generated 80% of their electrical energy from nuclear power plants. But the "Greens" forced their governments away from that. Now, with the "Greens" losing power to the more right wing parties more nuclear would likely be the direction Europe goes in the future, unless there is a huge breakthrough in fusion power.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fran...n-re-election/

https://abcnews.go.com/International...-big-110802128

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4nneg6252eo


I would strongly suggest you read that last BBC article. It is far more realistic than the Greens article you posted.

An excerpt:
"
Soaring energy prices because of Russia’s war in Ukraine and the wider cost of living crisis have turned many Europeans against abandoning fossil fuels. And farmers across Europe have blocked roads in anger at environmental reforms.

It could spell trouble for the EU's Green parties at the polls from 6-9 June.

The parties that make up the Greens/European Free Alliance (G/EFA) are currently the fourth-biggest group in the European Parliament, but most polls suggest they could lose as much as 30% of their seats.

“If the two right-wing groupings end up ahead of us and become part of the process of forming a majority, they will block large parts of parliament,” warns the Greens’ lead candidate Terry Reintke.

That kind of result could have a major impact on how the EU implements some of its Green Deal for the European economy, which is part of the Climate Law that aims to make Europe carbon-neutral by 2050.

Part of the deal has already been passed in a package of measures to reduce net greenhouse gas emissions by 55% of 1990 levels by 2030. The laws include a controversial clause that bans the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU by 2035.

But most of the policies that decide how the EU achieves its goals for 2040 still have to be agreed in the coming years. Additionally, if there’s enough political pressure, even directives that have already been approved can be changed.

And parties on the right and far right across the continent have responded fast to public discontent, weighing up expensive decarbonisation processes and investments in green transition against the cost of living crisis."
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