Ukraine conflict
#2871
[QUOTE=MaxQ;3797579]I do not think I have ever engaged in an ad hominem attack on yourself. I state judgments based on your posts and my knowledge.
No, that is an ASSUMPTION on your part- although indeed we may also disagree on the causes of the war. But I am as entitled to my opinion of the causes of this war as you are to yours.
Oh, useful idiot? And you do not consider "idiot" to be an ad hominem attack? You and I indeed have different views.
You suspect in error.
You make rather a large number I'd assumptions with no real basis in facts. You have in fact little knowledge of the degrees I have, the professional military education I have, or the military experience I have. Your assumptions appear to be based on your whim, rather than any demonstrable facts.
The internet has changed discussion/argument from basically private affairs into an instrument of war waged for the greatest prize.....control of public perception, and hence political/military/police power. I have pointed out at least 3 books, and at least one article from ISSW, that discuss this. It has evolved light years from propaganda, (which is your usual dismissive reply).
Horse$hit. What is there about a discussion of logistics and manpower you believe supports ANYONE's goals. The facts are the facts, validated even by the Ukrainian government. They are desperately short of manpower and have had many of their combat troops in the trenches for 2+ years without relief while taking massive casualties. Do you have any idea just how ineffective troops become in such a situation? Have you ever been in combat?
Which was horse$hit before, horse$hit now, and will be horse$hit if you repeat it. Repeating a lie does not make it the truth
.
Think about what YOU are doing. It's right out of Orwell's 1984. You are accusing me of being a thought criminal. For that matter, you are acting like the Red Guards chastising some poor school teacher for a lesson plan deviating from Mao's little red book.
https://i.ibb.co/mGMb2p2/IMG-7217.jpghttps://imgbb.com/]https://i.ibb.co/mGMb2p2/IMG-7217.jpg
That's both pathetic and laughable at the same time.
I have implied that you are ignorant of the causes of the war. That is merely a statement of objective fact from my perspective.
My most recent post merely repeated what I have stated multiple times regarding what you engage in. I just used examples from the USA's relatively recent history to illustrate.(tongue in cheek to make the poinr) Your positions mirror Lindbergh's America First, and remind even a casual observer of McClellan. (I did leave out Westmoreland due to recency)
You stated that I have impugned your character. I have not. I have impugned YOUR JUDGEMENT regarding posting your conclusions on the internet. Hence the implied classification of 'useful idiot'.
You stated that I have impugned your character. I have not. I have impugned YOUR JUDGEMENT regarding posting your conclusions on the internet. Hence the implied classification of 'useful idiot'.
A while back I made 3 lengthy "big picture" posts rebutting some of your basic premises. You dismissed with"you and I have different views".
I ssuspect you goggle search for articles that you then skim to back your conclusions. Due to the flood of articles, I suspect you don't even read most of them.
I ssuspect you goggle search for articles that you then skim to back your conclusions. Due to the flood of articles, I suspect you don't even read most of them.
Regardless, it is an internet education, which you have deliberately crafted into a silo type of knowledge.
Knowledge is important, but it doesn't equate to understanding.The Fox is very clever, but the Hedgehog knows a few big things.
Knowledge is important, but it doesn't equate to understanding.The Fox is very clever, but the Hedgehog knows a few big things.
The internet has changed discussion/argument from basically private affairs into an instrument of war waged for the greatest prize.....control of public perception, and hence political/military/police power. I have pointed out at least 3 books, and at least one article from ISSW, that discuss this. It has evolved light years from propaganda, (which is your usual dismissive reply).
Your posts support the strategic goals of a power that is actively working to destroy/damage the stability of the world, and destroy a sovereign country and it's national identity.
This means you are actively assisting that country in it's waging of war.
I have stated this before, and will do so again.
I have stated this before, and will do so again.
Think about what you are doing.
Think about what YOU are doing. It's right out of Orwell's 1984. You are accusing me of being a thought criminal. For that matter, you are acting like the Red Guards chastising some poor school teacher for a lesson plan deviating from Mao's little red book.
https://i.ibb.co/mGMb2p2/IMG-7217.jpghttps://imgbb.com/]https://i.ibb.co/mGMb2p2/IMG-7217.jpg
That's both pathetic and laughable at the same time.
#2872
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 722
#2873
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,527
You make rather a large number I'd assumptions with no real basis in facts. You have in fact little knowledge of the degrees I have, the professional military education I have, or the military experience I have. Your assumptions appear to be based on your whim, rather than any demonstrable facts.
Almost every talking head general out there thinks we should be supporting Ukraine *AND* we should be doing more.
Are you a 2, 3, or 4 star general who acutally dealt with manpower, logistics, international relations, and military alliances versus hostile countries? They actually have "demonstrable facts" behind their professional opinion and advice.
#2874
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,903
How about telling us about your degrees, professional milltary education or military experience?
Almost every talking head general out there thinks we should be supporting Ukraine *AND* we should be doing more.
Are you a 2, 3, or 4 star general who acutally dealt with manpower, logistics, international relations, and military alliances versus hostile countries? They actually have "demonstrable facts" behind their professional opinion and advice.
Almost every talking head general out there thinks we should be supporting Ukraine *AND* we should be doing more.
Are you a 2, 3, or 4 star general who acutally dealt with manpower, logistics, international relations, and military alliances versus hostile countries? They actually have "demonstrable facts" behind their professional opinion and advice.
#2875
#2876
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,903
#2877
Generally speaking, actually presenting well thought out arguments is a more effective tactic than just slinging ad hominems and insults but you do you.
#2878
You are about as inaccurate there as in most of your postings. Take a look at the number of views. Currently it's just north of 194,000. A couple of weeks ago it was 182,000. People are watching and learning. Nor is it "slinging RU propaganda" when I'm quoting sources as reputable as US military studies and air war college papers. You obviously haven't been actually reading what I reference. Equally obviously, other people have.
Generally speaking, actually presenting well thought out arguments is a more effective tactic than just slinging ad hominems and insults but you do you.
Generally speaking, actually presenting well thought out arguments is a more effective tactic than just slinging ad hominems and insults but you do you.
#2879
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,527
Will we hit 300,000 views before you present you resume detailing your military career, PME, and degrees?
People aren't getting educated coming to this thread. This is more like coming to the 'Pol Pot International School of Military Studies'....where they kill everyone with any intelligence.
People aren't getting educated coming to this thread. This is more like coming to the 'Pol Pot International School of Military Studies'....where they kill everyone with any intelligence.
#2880
An info packet…
https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-u...ean-future-war
Excerpts:
Congressional appropriation
Signed into law
Amount (USD, billions)
Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022
March 15, 2022
13.6
Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022
May 21, 2022
40.2
Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2023
September 30, 2022
12.4
Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2023
December 29, 2022
47.4
Ukraine Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2024
April 4, 2024
60.7
Regular appropriations, FY 2022, FY 2023, and FY 2024
0.9
Total
175.2
Source: Authors’ calculations based on congressional budget documents.
https://public.flourish.studio/uploads/39773/7a17702c-e2ab-4252-a715-86ccbe4dcad2.png
Equipment
First commitment date
Earliest known arrival in Ukraine
Number of days from announcement to earliest known arrival
Patriot air defense battery
December 21, 2022
April 19, 2023
119
National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System
July 1, 2022
November 7, 2022
129
Avenger air defense system
November 10, 2022
April 6, 2023
147
VAMPIRE counter-Unmanned Aerial System
December 6, 2022
June 1, 2023
177
HIMARS
June 1, 2022
June 23, 2022
22
155 mm Howitzer
April 13, 2022
April 25, 2022
12
155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer
January 6, 2023
May 3, 2023
117
105 mm Howitzer
August 19, 2022
December 1, 2022
104
Abrams tanks
February 3, 2023
September 25, 2023
234
Bradley IFV
January 6, 2023
April 17, 2023
101
Stryker Armored Personnel Carrier
January 19, 2023
March 21, 2023
61
M113 Armored Personnel Carrier
April 13, 2022
July 13, 2022
91
Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle
December 21, 2022
September 7, 2023
260
M60 Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge
March 20, 2023
January 26, 2024
312
M1117 Armored Security Vehicle
November 4, 2022
March 17, 2024
499
Mi-17
April 13, 2022
May 3, 2022
20
Source: Authors’ calculations based on PDA and USAI announcements; Oryx; and public social media announcements by Ukrainian and American officials.
https://public.flourish.studio/uploa...
The article is a worthwhile read for those who really want the FACTS about the recent Ukraine aid package.
What Is in the Ukraine Aid Package, and What Does it Mean for the Future of the War?
https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/styles/500_x_300/s3/2024-05/GettyImages-1244605196_cropped.jpg?VersionId=btEiH5PlDRTyBNdlb NRo3Wo5K7aCYjtA&h=266da715&itok=3xt2B6U_ Photo: BULENT KILIC/AFP via Getty ImagesCongressional Appropriation for Ukraine since February 2022
Congressional appropriation
Signed into law
Amount (USD, billions)
Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022
March 15, 2022
13.6
Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022
May 21, 2022
40.2
Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2023
September 30, 2022
12.4
Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2023
December 29, 2022
47.4
Ukraine Security Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2024
April 4, 2024
60.7
Regular appropriations, FY 2022, FY 2023, and FY 2024
0.9
Total
175.2
Source: Authors’ calculations based on congressional budget documents.
https://public.flourish.studio/uploads/39773/7a17702c-e2ab-4252-a715-86ccbe4dcad2.png
Known Equipment Delivery Timelines to Ukraine
Equipment
First commitment date
Earliest known arrival in Ukraine
Number of days from announcement to earliest known arrival
Patriot air defense battery
December 21, 2022
April 19, 2023
119
National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System
July 1, 2022
November 7, 2022
129
Avenger air defense system
November 10, 2022
April 6, 2023
147
VAMPIRE counter-Unmanned Aerial System
December 6, 2022
June 1, 2023
177
HIMARS
June 1, 2022
June 23, 2022
22
155 mm Howitzer
April 13, 2022
April 25, 2022
12
155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer
January 6, 2023
May 3, 2023
117
105 mm Howitzer
August 19, 2022
December 1, 2022
104
Abrams tanks
February 3, 2023
September 25, 2023
234
Bradley IFV
January 6, 2023
April 17, 2023
101
Stryker Armored Personnel Carrier
January 19, 2023
March 21, 2023
61
M113 Armored Personnel Carrier
April 13, 2022
July 13, 2022
91
Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle
December 21, 2022
September 7, 2023
260
M60 Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge
March 20, 2023
January 26, 2024
312
M1117 Armored Security Vehicle
November 4, 2022
March 17, 2024
499
Mi-17
April 13, 2022
May 3, 2022
20
Source: Authors’ calculations based on PDA and USAI announcements; Oryx; and public social media announcements by Ukrainian and American officials.
https://public.flourish.studio/uploa...
A large number of ATACMS could be sent quickly, as more than 1,000 are in the U.S. stockpile today. The risk of the United States being short for other conflicts is low because the Precision Strike Missile—the successor to the ATACMS—began deliveries in late 2023. ATACMS is obsolescent.
Enhancing air defense, one of Ukraine’s top needs, will take years because the United States eliminated most of that capability after the Cold War. For example, the United States committed 14 National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS). The first two NASAMS, as a PDA drawdown, arrived in November 2022, taking about four months to deliver. The other 10 NASAMS committed under USAI will not arrive until 2025 at the earliest because of a 24-month production lead time.
Enhancing air defense, one of Ukraine’s top needs, will take years because the United States eliminated most of that capability after the Cold War. For example, the United States committed 14 National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS). The first two NASAMS, as a PDA drawdown, arrived in November 2022, taking about four months to deliver. The other 10 NASAMS committed under USAI will not arrive until 2025 at the earliest because of a 24-month production lead time.
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