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Old 04-02-2024, 09:39 PM
  #2731  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Nope. It had more to do with protecting the then existing NATO members who even then were too cheap to fund their own defense adequately. And what did that get us? In 1980 the US National debt was $914 Billion. Today it is $34.6 TRILLION.

https://www.usdebtclock.org

Maybe it's time for Europe to actually pay for the defense of Europe...
$800 Billion a year on military spending annually. For what? To collect rust while we watch the world burn around us?

If so, we are the kings of Paper Tigers.
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Old 04-03-2024, 06:47 AM
  #2732  
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Originally Posted by TransWorld
It is good they are stepping up to a much greater extent than in the past.
Have you heard the expression "a day late and a dollar short?"

Military production is mostly long lead time stuff. Even something as simple as small arms ammunition production takes years to ramp up in volume. Artillery, tanks, ships, planes, antiaircraft/antiballistic missiles take even longer - especially in any volume. And they have the damage if at least 30 years of underfunding to repair before they can actually start to get caught up. And that's even without supply chain shortages which now seem endemic or with a lack of trained and skilled workers, or special materials which we have to get from someone else - maybe even someone we are sanctioning or someone siding with Russia.

China dominates global titanium production overall, as the largest producer of ilmenite, titanium sponge, and titanium dioxide. Other leading titanium mineral producers are Mozambique, South Africa, Japan, Russia, and Australia, among others, depending on the specific mineral or form of titanium.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-c...ear%20monopoly.

And a dollar short - most of the EU's military promises HAVE YET TO COME TO FRUITION and they are already backtracking on many of them. They've made these promises before - many times - and reneged on them - many times. And even with the best of intentions they seem unable to deliver on their promises, like the one million artillery shells they promised the Ukraine this year.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/eur...ells-received/


So yeah, there is no question that Western Europe can talk the talk - they've been doing it for years - walking the walk? Not so much.

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu...ip-11-01-2023/

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-hit-nato-budget-goal-for-1st-time-since-cold-war/a-68254361

and NATO averages are deceptive:

https://www.forces.net/news/world/na...-share-defence

Tiny Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania exceeding the 2% does not offset even one of the larger countries (Spain, Italy, France, Germany). failing to meet their 2%.

https://ibb.co/hL7JC7B][/url[/url]]
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Old 04-03-2024, 08:27 AM
  #2733  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped
isw is free bro……check it out, and look at their bench. Alot of people with more street cred than all of us put together.
ISW founder at a glance; Dr. Kim Kagan..received her B.A. in Classical Civilization and Ph.D. in Military History at Yale University, was an Andrew W. Mellon Fellow in Humanistic Studies, and held Olin postdoctoral fellowships in strategic studies at both Harvard and Yale. She co-founded and co-teaches the Hertog War Studies Program at ISW, a highly selective, intensive, longitudinal educational program for undergraduates.

Very impressive. Knock on any door. Ask whoever answers to name the serving Secretary of State. Try not to get spit on. Not Dr. Kim’s war. Or mine. Nothing is free btw.
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Old 04-03-2024, 12:01 PM
  #2734  
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Reminds me of the book, "Why England Slept" by President Jack Kennedy. Interesting read.
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Old 04-03-2024, 02:10 PM
  #2735  
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Default Manpower matters…

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukra...se-war-russia/


Ukraine is at great risk of its front lines collapsing

According to high-ranking Ukrainian officers, the military picture is grim and Russian generals could find success wherever they decide to focus their upcoming offensive.
An excerpt:

The officers emphasized that they need many, many more men too. The country currently doesn’t have enough men on the front lines, and this is compounding the problem of underwhelming Western support.

However, Ukraine has yet to pull the trigger on recruitment ahead of the expected Russian push, as authorities are worried about the political fallout mobilization measures might bring amid draft-dodging and avoidance of conscription papers. Zaluzhny had already publicly called for the mobilization of more troops back in December, estimating Ukraine needed at least an additional 500,000 men. The draft issue has gone back and forth ever since.

Then, last week, General Oleksandr Syrsky — Zaluzhny’s replacement — abruptly announced that Ukraine might not need quite so many fresh troops. After a review of resources, the figure has been “significantly reduced,” and “we expect that we will have enough people capable of defending their motherland,” he told the Ukrinform news agency. “I am talking not only about the mobilized but also about volunteer fighters,” he said.

The plan is to move as many desk-bound uniformed personnel and those in noncombat roles to the front lines as possible, after an intensive three- to four-month training. But the senior officers POLITICO spoke to said that Syrsky was wrong and “playing along with narratives from politicians.” Then, on Tuesday, Zelenskyy signed some additional parts to an old mobilization law tightening the legal requirements for draft-age Ukrainian men to register their details, and lowering the minimum age for call-up from 27 to 25. But in Ukraine, this is just seen as tinkering.

“We don’t only have a military crisis — we have a political one,” one of the officers said. While Ukraine shies away from a big draft, “Russia is now gathering resources and will be ready to launch a big attack around August, and maybe sooner.”

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Old 04-03-2024, 05:57 PM
  #2736  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
ISW founder at a glance; Dr. Kim Kagan..received her B.A. in Classical Civilization and Ph.D. in Military History at Yale University, was an Andrew W. Mellon Fellow in Humanistic Studies, and held Olin postdoctoral fellowships in strategic studies at both Harvard and Yale. She co-founded and co-teaches the Hertog War Studies Program at ISW, a highly selective, intensive, longitudinal educational program for undergraduates.

Very impressive. Knock on any door. Ask whoever answers to name the serving Secretary of State. Try not to get spit on. Not Dr. Kim’s war. Or mine. Nothing is free btw.
There's a lot of people that work with ISW. Why not mention them? Think THEY don't know who the SecState is? Of course they do. They'd spit on your false allegation.
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Old 04-03-2024, 06:10 PM
  #2737  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Nope. It had more to do with protecting the then existing NATO members who even then were too cheap to fund their own defense adequately. And what did that get us? In 1980 the US National debt was $914 Billion. Today it is $34.6 TRILLION.

https://www.usdebtclock.org

Maybe it's time for Europe to actually pay for the defense of Europe...
And now you are saying the US debt is because of NATO, and the European defense budgets?

Hah.
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Old 04-03-2024, 07:28 PM
  #2738  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
ISW founder at a glance; Dr. Kim Kagan..received her B.A. in Classical Civilization and Ph.D. in Military History at Yale University, was an Andrew W. Mellon Fellow in Humanistic Studies, and held Olin postdoctoral fellowships in strategic studies at both Harvard and Yale. She co-founded and co-teaches the Hertog War Studies Program at ISW, a highly selective, intensive, longitudinal educational program for undergraduates.

Very impressive. Knock on any door. Ask whoever answers to name the serving Secretary of State. Try not to get spit on. Not Dr. Kim’s war. Or mine. Nothing is free btw.
i dont know what you are trying to say.
is isw behind a pay wall?
do you have a phd?

sometimes you talk just to talk. Maybe have a clear concise point like they teach in pilot training
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Old 04-03-2024, 07:50 PM
  #2739  
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Originally Posted by dera
And now you are saying the US debt is because of NATO, and the European defense budgets?

Hah.
Money is fungible. Every dime we paid to protect Europe that Europe shoukd have paid became part of the national debt. Not ALL of the national debt, Lord knows we've done enough other foolish interventions - the $2.3 Trillion down the cr@pper in Afghanistan comes to recent mind, but yeah Europe too.
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Old 04-03-2024, 08:29 PM
  #2740  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Money is fungible. Every dime we paid to protect Europe that Europe shoukd have paid became part of the national debt. Not ALL of the national debt, Lord knows we've done enough other foolish interventions - the $2.3 Trillion down the cr@pper in Afghanistan comes to recent mind, but yeah Europe too.
Funny how the national debt is only an issue whenever a Democrat is in office.

That $7 Trillion that Trump blew through on tax breaks and Covid "loans" doesn't count, am I right?
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