Originally Posted by Lowslung

Have you ever been to the Baltics? Poland? Anywhere in the former Soviet empire? Do you understand that the reason there are large numbers of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in many of those places is because of deliberate and concerted Soviet policies that encouraged ethnically Russian men to take local wives & have children in these countries in an attempt to Russianize the population? These policies were largely reviled by the occupied populations. And make no mistake, an occupation is exactly what Soviet rule was to these people. In many cases, the Russian overlords simply moved into the very same buildings, offices, and torture chambers that their Nazi predecessors had been in during the war. Frankly, I couldn't care less what "promises" were made to Gorbachev by the west. The Soviet experiment failed & the Russians were in no position to be making demands or declaring ultimatums. Eastern Europe found itself free of the shackles of occupation and understandably desired to guarantee their newfound freedom by joining NATO. They are some of the best allies we have. The populations are happy when they encounter American service personnel, they meet their defense spending goals, and they don't balk at shouldering their share of the work when they deploy with us, which they are generally happy to do. It is exciting to be in places like Prague, Warsaw, Riga, and Bratislava and see people who don't take western freedoms for granted. If the Russians were truly concerned about buffering their own borders against perceived Western aggression, they would've offered their former subjects a better deal than NATO could. They didn't & they won't because in Russian eyes the only purpose that those populations ever served was to act as a human speed bump when they went to war. It's hard to think of better allies than the Eastern Europeans in today's world & that's one of the places on the planet that we absolutely should care about defending. The Russians have no plans to stop at Ukraine, but that particular battlefield represents a unique opportunity in that by helping the Ukrainians fight, we can halt Russian expansionism before it reaches NATO's borders and turns into a hot war that ruins Europe or worse.

Originally Posted by METO Guido

If the black hand of Russian nationalism, which btw Lenin (Vladimir Ilyich Lenin) publicly rejected, is such a clear & present threat to the rest of Europe and beyond, why do you suppose the planet’s 2 most populous superpowers lend zero support to the righteous, moral victims? Answer that for us old school, Cold War ‘idiots’ in lol translated bruh speak, maybe teach us something relevant. Including you Mr. Brightspark. Things change, things don’t. Hard to make good decisions without working through all the angles. In real time, without the myriad pitfalls sentiment or pity.

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

Come on dude, do a little research instead of just having an idea and then throwing it down because you think it sounds good. You’re better than that. There are tons of articles on this very subject that all generally agree. Do your own work.

the irony is you wont like what you find as it doesn’t support your position of isolationism so beware. But lets see if you can be a better human than vlad and admit you made a mistake. Should be interesting to see what level of integrity you have after all your talk about honor.

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

Come on dude, do a little research instead of just having an idea and then throwing it down because you think it sounds good. You’re better than that. There are tons of articles on this very subject that all generally agree. Do your own work.

the irony is you wont like what you find as it doesn’t support your position of isolationism so beware. But lets see if you can be a better human than vlad and admit you made a mistake. Should be interesting to see what level of integrity you have after all your talk about honor.

Originally Posted by MaxQ

I should add that Kuzio does a pretty accurate thumbnail sketch of Putin's, and others Eurasianists, inaccurate and odd assertions regarding basic, factual history.

Originally Posted by MaxQ

I should add that Kuzio does a pretty accurate thumbnail sketch of Putin's, and others Eurasianists, inaccurate and odd assertions regarding basic, factual history.

Originally Posted by METO Guido

If the black hand of Russian nationalism, which btw Lenin (Vladimir Ilyich Lenin) publicly rejected, is such a clear & present threat to the rest of Europe and beyond, why do you suppose the planet’s 2 most populous superpowers lend zero support to the righteous, moral victims? Answer that for us old school, Cold War ‘idiots’ in lol translated bruh speak, maybe teach us something relevant. Including you Mr. Brightspark. Things change, things don’t. Hard to make good decisions without working through all the angles. In real time, without the myriad pitfalls sentiment or pity.