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Old 03-10-2024, 11:45 PM
  #2541  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Arguably, yes. What part of this seems unclear to you?


By your definition I suppose so. We were allied with Russia in BOTH World Wars and I'm fairly certain that Stalin was no better than Putin,



More sophistry. You know damn well that was only the most recent prominent group that got caught. And what did you think of the (what's coyote in Ukrainian? Fees they were charging? The GDP per capita in Ukraine is less than $5k. That group was paying 2 year's worth of the average Ukrainian's annual worth before taxes to get to Romania.

The last guy drafted in the US was inducted June 30 1973. Since he would have had to have been at least 18, he would by now be at least 68 - too old to fly 121. So chances are YOU were never subject to a draft in your lifetime.
If the Russian Army was staging on the Canadian border, do you think the Selective Service would be activated? You better believe it would be. And that's the difference. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence.
As we would be if our borders were threatened.

You wanna talk about draft dodging like it's some sort of gotcha, but without context it's useless. What % dodged in the Vietnam War? How's that compare to Ukraine?

15,000,000 deferments (including President Bone Spurs)
300,000 dodgers

All drafts have deserters. Without anything to compare it to, it's just noise. As most of the things you post are.
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Old 03-11-2024, 06:40 AM
  #2542  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
If the Russian Army was staging on the Canadian border... All drafts have deserters. Without anything to compare it to, it's just noise. As most of the things you post are.
Doh…Superb Yupik gibberish. Must be Monday
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Old 03-11-2024, 07:49 AM
  #2543  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
I love that you had to go back to before airplanes crossed oceans and global supply chains didn't exist to make your point.

It only illustrates how stupid isolationism is in the modern age. You've posted some stinkers in the past, this one is a doozy.
Actually, your posting only demonstrates your own ignorance.

Of course global supply chains existed before WWI. Europe had colonies and spheres of interest throughout the entire world before WW1. Spain had colonies worldwide. From National Geographic:

Colonialism is defined as “control by one power over a dependent area or people.” It occurs when one nation subjugates another, conquering its population and exploiting it, often while forcing its own language and cultural values upon its people. By 1914, a large majority of the world's nations had been colonized by Europeans at some point.

Japan, Korea, and Thailand are the only other nations never to have been colonized by Europeans.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/c...le/colonialism

Did you have NO WORLD HISTORY WHATEVER in middle school or high school, or do you just not pay any attention? Have you never heard of things like the Spice Road?

A large and impressive network of sea routes that linked the East and West stretching from the west coast of Japan, through the Islands of Indonesia, around the Indian subcontinent to the Iranian Plateau, the Arabian Peninsula and eventually Europe, facilitated the largescale trade of spices over a distance of more than 15,000 kilometres. These ‘spice routes’ made up just one maritime part of the expansive trade networks of the Silk Roads.

From as early as 2000 BC, spices such as cinnamon from Sri Lanka and cassia from China were exported along the Silk Roads as far west as the Arabian Peninsula and the Iranian Plateau. As was often the case with the many other goods traded along the Silk Roads, the ports where spice traders stopped along their journeys, acted as melting pots for a broad exchange of ideas and information. With every ship that set sail with a cargo of valuables on board, knowledge was carried over the seas to be exchanged at the next port of call.

The word “spice” derives from the Latin species, or ‘special wares’, and refers to an item of special value, as opposed to ordinary articles of trade. Spices were highly valued because, as well as being used in cooking, many had ritual, religious or medical uses. They were of high value because of their relative geographical scarcity. Spices could only be grown in the tropical East, in the South of China, Indonesia as well as in Southern India and Sri Lanka. In particular, they grew in the Moluccas a chain of mountainous islands in the Pacific Ocean between Sulawesi and New Guinea,. Some spices, such as cloves and nutmeg, grew nowhere else in the world.
https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/conte...ong-silk-roads

Did you never hear of the Opium Wars?

Opium Wars, two armed conflicts in China in the mid-19th century between the forces of Western countries and of the Qing dynasty, which ruled China from 1644 to 1911/12. The first Opium War (1839–42) was fought between China and Britain, and the second Opium War (1856–60), also known as the Arrow War or the Anglo-French War in China, was fought by Britainand France against China. In each case the foreign powers were victorious and gained commercial privileges and legal and territorial concessions in China. The conflicts marked the start of the era of unequal treaties and other inroads on Qing sovereignty that helped weaken and ultimately topple the dynasty in favour of republican China in the early 20th century. Contributing to the start of the Opium Wars was the failed British trade mission of 1792-93 known as the Macartney Embassy.​​​​​​​
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Opium-Wars

​​​​​​​Man, your ignorance is showing in all its glory today.
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Old 03-11-2024, 08:00 AM
  #2544  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
If the Russian Army was staging on the Canadian border, do you think the Selective Service would be activated? You better believe it would be. And that's the difference. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence.
As we would be if our borders were threatened.

You wanna talk about draft dodging like it's some sort of gotcha, but without context it's useless. What % dodged in the Vietnam War? How's that compare to Ukraine?

15,000,000 deferments (including President Bone Spurs)
300,000 dodgers

All drafts have deserters. Without anything to compare it to, it's just noise. As most of the things you post are.
Strawman argument from someone who doesn't even know international trade existed before WW1. Given that we BIUGHT the Louisiana Purchase and Alaska, you'd think anyone woukd have realized that. Raised in California, I had to learn how Spain became one of the most powerful countries on Earth through its colonies before I could graduate from middle school.

Russian Army staging in Canada? You realize that the FBI estimates (because nobody really knows) there are 450 million firearms in private hands in the US? Not to mention nuclear weapons.

This sounds an awful lot like what Hub calls "fear porn".
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Old 03-11-2024, 09:37 AM
  #2545  
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Default Another voice heard from…

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi..._depleted.html

Excerpts:

He said that we would weaken Russia in order to prevent them from waging this type of war again. In fact, we've made the Russian military stronger, it's larger than it was before, it produces far more weapons, the industrial base is ramped up. Plus it's now battle-tested and battle-hardened, especially against Western weapons, so it's a much more formidable military Biden has created on the part of the Russians than when we started.

Meanwhile, it's the United States that has seen its stockpiles depleted and hollowed out.
Then you look at the economic claims that Biden made, he said that sanctions would crush the Russian economy. In fact, the Russian economy is growing faster than any of the G-7 economies. It's really booming and it's our European allies' economies that have been crushed by the sanctions.

So, you know all this policy that he's pursued has really boomeranged and again come true in reverse.


​​​​​​​
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Old 03-11-2024, 11:38 AM
  #2546  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Actually, your posting only demonstrates your own ignorance.

Of course global supply chains existed before WWI. Europe had colonies and spheres of interest throughout the entire world before WW1. Spain had colonies worldwide. From National Geographic:



https://www.nationalgeographic.com/c...le/colonialism

Did you have NO WORLD HISTORY WHATEVER in middle school or high school, or do you just not pay any attention? Have you never heard of things like the Spice Road?



https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/conte...ong-silk-roads

Did you never hear of the Opium Wars?



https://www.britannica.com/topic/Opium-Wars

Man, your ignorance is showing in all its glory today.
That’s not a global supply chain you’re talking about, that’s an imperial supply chain. There’s a difference. During colonial times, the rule wasn’t the Brits trading with the Spanish, the Portuguese trading with the French, etc. It was each power creating its own supply chain and largely operating within it. When you came across another power’s ship, you attempted to capture it and plunder the spoils. If you were a smaller power without a navy, fuhggetaboudit. You got subjugated. Mad max on the high seas - fun movie, miserable reality. Hardly the same as today’s global supply chain where a country like South Korea can become a global economic powerhouse within the space of a generation. That dirty little word ‘globalism’ has probably been the greatest boon to global quality of life since the dawn of civilization. Three guesses as to who’s made that possible. The United States & its navy have secured the oceans for global trade for nearly eight decades now & the results have been remarkable. If you believe that kind of opportunity for humanity continues when the US sticks its head back into its shell, you’re beyond a fool. I don’t see the Russians or Chinese ever filling that role & the MAGA/Tucker crowd’s continued insistence on some sort of moral equivalence between us and them is truly misguided & frankly idiotic. I’m proud of my country’s accomplishments. More practically, I benefit immensely from them as do most of the humans on earth. Some of you have lost the plot.
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Old 03-11-2024, 12:50 PM
  #2547  
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Originally Posted by Lowslung
That’s not a global supply chain you’re talking about, that’s an imperial supply chain. There’s a difference. During colonial times, the rule wasn’t the Brits trading with the Spanish, the Portuguese trading with the French, etc. It was each power creating its own supply chain and largely operating within it. When you came across another power’s ship, you attempted to capture it and plunder the spoils. If you were a smaller power without a navy, fuhggetaboudit. You got subjugated. Mad max on the high seas - fun movie, miserable reality. Hardly the same as today’s global supply chain where a country like South Korea can become a global economic powerhouse within the space of a generation. That dirty little word ‘globalism’ has probably been the greatest boon to global quality of life since the dawn of civilization. Three guesses as to who’s made that possible. The United States & its navy have secured the oceans for global trade for nearly eight decades now & the results have been remarkable. If you believe that kind of opportunity for humanity continues when the US sticks its head back into its shell, you’re beyond a fool. I don’t see the Russians or Chinese ever filling that role & the MAGA/Tucker crowd’s continued insistence on some sort of moral equivalence between us and them is truly misguided & frankly idiotic. I’m proud of my country’s accomplishments. More practically, I benefit immensely from them as do most of the humans on earth. Some of you have lost the plot.
This ^^^^^^
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Old 03-11-2024, 01:04 PM
  #2548  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Cargo:
You frequently cite the Real Clear websites.
I have questioned some in the past.
This one is almost assuredly false. Russian economy, according to neighbors who would know, is suffering.
Example:
Last year Russia claimed an inflation rate at one point of 4%. A Polish economist called it laughable, that it was closer to 65%. Is 65% correct? I don't know. The point is that quoting Russian sourced econ numbers is not a good idea.
Growing economies have increases in energy usage, cement, and air pollution amongst other stuff. What outsiders can discern doesn't match what Russia states.

There is a tendency to state things as literal. "they said such and such" (whomever "they" is). Gee, such and such didn't 100% come to pass, hence what was predicted is totally wrong.
You are smart enough to know that most stuff is a matter of degree. Also that even if something isn't 100% accurate, that doesn't mean the entire narrative...or it's point...is invalid.
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Old 03-11-2024, 01:16 PM
  #2549  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Nice job parroting Putin's talking points.

Lots of good stuff in the articles. One example - GPD growth to build military equipment for the Ukrainians to blow up is not a long term success plan. Another example - yes, the GDP is rising. Social welfare, services and goods are being cut to send to the military. It's not a 'path to success' if the West continues to support Ukraine. Ergo the need for Putin and his supporters to undermine the West. That almost sounds like this thread.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60125659

https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/89708

https://www.forbes.com/sites/globalc...h=70a3af9c31fc

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/29/europe/russia-sanctions-putin-ukraine-economy-intl/index.html
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Old 03-11-2024, 01:30 PM
  #2550  
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Originally Posted by Lowslung
Some of you have lost the plot.
We’re saps. Lazy, loud, liquored up. Over medicated, overfed, massively overextended. Yet everybody wants in and nobody ever leaves. Ok, so maybe not the best plot. Still better than half a$$ waging more wars that’ll never be won.
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