METO Guido

If you say so. Any more flattery, don’t know what I’ll do. Agree in general it’s a poor craftsman who blames tools. But Holmes & Watson got Prof. Moriarty. We get O-3 Hubcapped. Doesn’t seem quite fair. Vipers, correct? Holy Camoly

Hubcapped

O-4. Not that it means much. As long as you didnt have a dui you made it. Still don’t really know what you’re tryin to say.

METO Guido

You know it’s Friday night & the clock on the wall says 2330? Your conduct/statements here reflect little if any of what might pass for a service branch officer’s bearing or judgment. So to borrow an annoying mantra, this thread is, dare I say, a feckless record of steaming bs. You’re here trolling, flaming and ranting at the very people who’ve trusted you with their common defense. Paid for your training, keep the airline you work for solvent. You owe them better and you know it. Want to ‘own’ that or not?

Excargodog

https://worldcrunch.com/focus/ukraine-military-old

I can't vouch for the veracity of it but it would explain something I always thought was strange about their conscription laws. Most countries are in general conscripting 18-22 year olds (for those countries that conscript anyone) pretty much on the theory that they won't yet have but the Ukraine conscript law is dependents or be well established in some necessary job. But the Ukraine conscription law targets males 27-60 and the new law being proposed would still only drop the minimum age of conscripts to 25. Apparently this just reflects a different philosophy. In a land where the population has long been dropping (it was 52 million in 1990 versus 36 million (counting occupied Oblasts) today. Life expectancy for males at birth even before this war was only about 65 and with a fertility rate so small the population is both aging and shrinking it was apparently decided to burn through the older men who had already used up a good chunk of their life expectancy rather than drafting and perhaps losing the young.

Must make it interesting going through basic training as a 50 year old E-1.

Lowslung

The difference is they're facing annihilation. The Russians were conscripting 12 year old girls at Stalingrad. A country facing being wiped off the map tends to make some tough decisions.

Excargodog

My surprise was not so much that they might be drafting 50 year olds but rather why they weren't drafting 18 year olds...although they do permit them to enlist.

BigZ

The article has a point, but overlooks some important aspects.
Not sure what the recent years over there looked like, but the basic idea of the conscript army was
- you finish high school (or tech school) at 18 and go serve for two years
- or you finish high school, go to college, and then serve for two years
in the second half of the nineties there was a major change of the public perception regarding the military service. Up until then, military service was considered a cool and proper thing to do, but due to the post-soviet corruption and overall poverty, it became something that only those with nothing better to do did. Figure everyone 45 and older had (at least somewhat) meaningful two years in the military, and most of the younger men did not. Ukrainian government is trying to capitalize on that.
Furthermore, generation that was born and brought up in the 30 years of "independent nation" is more likely to carry the idea forward and is hence deemed more valuable to the government. Older generation doesn't buy into the ideology nearly as much as the TV would like everyone to believe, but being that 80+% of the casualties are due to artillery and such, it doesn't matter.
Moreover, by dying daddy props up the agenda - evil Russians killed the father, so now you must grow up and avenge him.
That's been backfiring lately, as the casualties have reached the point where even the most pro-ukrainian regions are starting to question what is it exactly the people are dying for. More and more videos of draft officers being assaulted and thrown out of public transportation been hitting the web in the recent weeks.
At the end of the day, vast majority of the population doesn't care which currency to use to pay for the food, as long as they are able to provide for their families. Being dead, however, is a major setback in reaching that goal.

Hubcapped

Hmmmm alot to unpack here. But lets get some things straight.

i dont “owe” you ****.

read your little rant when you wake up sober and somehow try and convince yourself its not some self entitled baby tantrum. People disagree with you, sorry that hurts your feelings.

its not my fault you have no real answer to stopping russia and just dont want to admit it. Maybe take a break if its making you this emotional. Gather your thoughts, reflect on how MULTIPLE people have told you they cannot understand you or think english is your second language, learn from it, execute……its not hard to speak like a normal person.

if the thread is “BS” then why do you keep coming back?……….exactly

Hubcapped

welcome,
these are valid points, the question then is when does this attitude drive them into capitulation. Right now Russia has no plans to stop short of full conquest. Particularly in light of being emboldened by our GOP falling prey to the almost 2billion propaganda apparatus attacking our western right wing media sites.

The main question is thus (imo): if ukraine wants to fight (last poll i read was 73% in favor), do we give them the tools to keep russia away from one of the largest grain fields in the world (africas food supply)? Do we not let ourselves get emotional about EU military spending, but rather make sure the “objective “ of keeping european stability gets accomplished?
The above are objective questions, the below is subjective reasoning…..it is in our own best geopolitical interests to maintain the seat of world numero uno, if we let europe handle this alone, or let russia win and absorb ukraines resources, we lose influence. Loss of influence means we lose the ability to shape events, thus risking American lives down the line.

All at the cost of old equipment and 10% of our annual dod budget. It seems like such a no brainer at this point. This is of course subjective

Sliceback

If that's really true why didn't the Ukranians just open the doors, willingly, when Russia crossed the border two years ago? Out manned and out gunned they think the ideals they're fighting for are worth it. Just like the people who signed the declaration of indenpendence thought it was worth it in what became the U.S.A. Proud people, with courage, fighting a just cause. They deserve our support and not the current back stabbing they having to endure.