Ukraine conflict
02-17-2024, 06:07 PM
#2252
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 701
But seriously, do you actually think the Russians could take Western and Central Europe in a conventional war? They have neither the logistics nor the population to do that - not if the Europeans actually fund their own militaries appropriately. The EU GDP is over ten times that of Russia and has three times the population. There is no question Europe can defend itself if they have the will to do so. And if they don't have the will to do so, why the Hell should we?
That alone makes Ukraine a bargain for you, personally.
02-17-2024, 07:47 PM
#2253
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,115
Let me get this straight. You work for the travel industry. You don't think you have a vested interest in the continued stability of Europe? The consequences of a full-blown war in Europe will be wide-reaching and global.
Not only has Putin and the Kremlin made overtures of getting the Soviet Bloc back together, but the abandonment of our allies would permanently downgrade the United States as world leaders. The power vacuum would throw everything into chaos.
But please, go on posting your 1000th article about expired German ammuntion. And nothing about the Kremlin's desires to march to Warsaw.
Not only has Putin and the Kremlin made overtures of getting the Soviet Bloc back together, but the abandonment of our allies would permanently downgrade the United States as world leaders. The power vacuum would throw everything into chaos.
But please, go on posting your 1000th article about expired German ammuntion. And nothing about the Kremlin's desires to march to Warsaw.
HERE. This makes as much sense as yiur "sky is falling" argument:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060921/
the EU has ten times the GDP of Russia and three times the population. That logistics and manpower thing works both ways. In ten years Russia has only managed to take 18% of the Ukraine and but for the fecklessness of our allies likely would not even have attempted that. Europe can AFFORD to defend itself. It just needs to stop being too damn cheap to do it.
02-17-2024, 07:51 PM
#2254
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,115
So you think hundreds of thousands of people dying and being maimed is less important to me than an airline job? The fact that you make that argument tells me all I need to know about what kind of a human being you are. Certainly not one that can lecture me about anything.
02-17-2024, 08:02 PM
#2255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 701
So you think hundreds of thousands of people dying and being maimed is less important to me than an airline job? The fact that you make that argument tells me all I need to know about what kind of a human being you are. Certainly not one that can lecture me about anything.
How many atrocities are you willing to overlook to preserve our isolation? How many global fires are you willing to ignore? Is a war-induced global recession on your list of acceptable items?
02-17-2024, 08:07 PM
#2256
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
But that's not say we shouldn't pressure our wealthy allies to hold up their end of the stick too.
02-17-2024, 08:36 PM
#2257
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,115
You, my friend, are the one who is virtue signaling. And being an alarmist. And being insulting when you believe my opinion on continuing a war between two conscript armies can be bought by threatening the loss of a job. There will always be atrocities out there. We spent 20 years and $2 Trillion in Afghanistan and there are still atrocities there.
02-17-2024, 08:37 PM
#2258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 701
So, are you Volunteering to go restore democracy to the three nations in the Sahel whose democracies just went under to military coups? Or go fight China to liberate Tibet. Or take on the Mullahs in Iran? Or to go over to the Ukraine and fight the Ruskies yourself? Where does your willingness to play world policeman end?
You, my friend, are the one whose virtue signaling. And being an alarmist. And being insulting when you believe my opinion on continuing a war between two conscript armies can be bought by threatening the loss of a job. There will always be atrocities out there. We spent 20 years and $2 Trillion in Afghanistan and there are still atrocities there.
You, my friend, are the one whose virtue signaling. And being an alarmist. And being insulting when you believe my opinion on continuing a war between two conscript armies can be bought by threatening the loss of a job. There will always be atrocities out there. We spent 20 years and $2 Trillion in Afghanistan and there are still atrocities there.
The conflict is Ukraine. The subject is the Russian army with aspirations westward. Let's stick to the matter at hand.
I just want to comment on your non-response. Lots of emotion and zero counter about the actual threat. I can pull an Excargodog and show you the quotes from Putin that says he wants Poland. I can show you a lifetime of interviews that illustrate his desires to reassemble the Eastern Bloc.
You can pretend that it isn't relevant. But you're a vatnik sympathizer. I don't have high expectations for you.
02-17-2024, 08:45 PM
#2259
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,115
So how does Ukraine come through with their plans to not negotiate until the last Russian is off internationally recognized Ukrainian soil? How does that happen?
02-17-2024, 08:47 PM
#2260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 701
So what do you want? US boots on the ground? Because our feckless NATO allies aren't going to put theirs on the ground. Tactical nukes? (I used to be in that business). Strategic nukes? Because right now Ukraine is slowly losing and we've depleted our own war readiness supplies about as much as we can afford and our feckless European allies never did have much and have considerably less now. And Ukrainians are dying faster than they are being replaced and many of those not dying have left the country and are never coming back,
So how does Ukraine come through with their plans to not negotiate until the last Russian is off internationally recognized Ukrainian soil? How does that happen?
So how does Ukraine come through with their plans to not negotiate until the last Russian is off internationally recognized Ukrainian soil? How does that happen?
Ukraine folds, and then what? Everyone goes home? Again. Consequences seem to escape you. There is nothing that says the bloodshed stops if the United States goes home. In fact, the bloodshed is bound to get far, far worse.
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