Excargodog

I view it differently. This involves two conscript armies dying. Some people take that seriously and even if it is too late to prevent THIS tragedy from happening, would at least like Europe to learn the lessons of this war and the fact that deterrence - while costly - is generally cheaper than the alternative. Others view it like a Super Bowl game, cheering on their favorite team with little understanding of the costs or tragedies involved. The them it is merely "entertainment".

demonrat

If only the USA's border were defended as fiercely. Maybe Texas should change it's name to Ukraine and get some of that laundered sweet cheddar.

Lowslung

If only Ana de Armas would have dinner with me. But that’s not what’s being discussed here & it’s not pertinent to the conversation. Do try to follow along.

demonrat

Quite pertinent. I'll follow along on the public forum and comment as I wish.

METO Guido

Now spidy’s cornfused. You want entertainment or you don’t? 1100 posts in under 2 years, incessant doesn’t mean insecure btw.

METO Guido

If all the kids already KIA on this caper were laid out in spider suits, how many would they need? Bad moon’s still rising dude, no doubt about it.

Hubcapped

come on dude, he is spamming constantly to 2 people, no sane person does that. I didnt make the spiderman reference btw, not really tracking that one tbh

you want subjective opinion?
its a completely emotional argument to say we shouldn’t be involved. We want to remain the powerhouse, we want trade, we want geopolitical influence. All of that is given up if we dont supply relatively obsolete equipment and 10% of our annual dod budget. So what if the EU doesnt hold up their end, better for us….more influence so we can push our corporations down their throats for moneyyyyyy…..

ReluctantEskimo

Consequences and isolationists have never met. No one has considered how bad Europe will become when/if the United States stands down. It could easily spiral into Article V activation, and then.. we're right back there with boots on the ground.

Excargodog has never explained how the United States remains unscathed while Europe falls into chaos. He doesn't want to, because simply put... we don't.

Excargodog

1. Iceland has been successfully isolationist for over a thousand years- it doesn't seem to have hurt them.
2. Go back a few postings and READ Article 5. It's a weasel worded document that commits nobody to anything. Which perhaps is why most European NATO nations let their militaries wither away to nothing. They never had any intention of using them.
3. The two times we have fought wars in Europe were generally against countries THAT ARE NOW PART OF NATO (Germany being the big offender).

In WW1 our opponents were the Central Powers consisting of the Ottoman Empire (Predominately Turkey and parts of Greece, Romania, Hungary, and Macedonia ), Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Bulgaria) and our Allies consisting of France, Great Britain, Russia, Japan, and (after 1917) the United States.
In WW2 our opponents were Germany, Japan, Austria, and Italy while our Allies were Great Britain, the Free French, the USSR and to a limited extent, China.

Explain to me why we need to get involved at all. Almost all the players are already NATO members (and often previous opponents) and the ones that aren't were either our allies in both previous World Wars Russia/USSR or over in Asia (Japan and China) where we have other issues we can expect damn little help with from the rest of NATO because they don't begin to have the capabilities to affect that theater much.

But seriously, do you actually think the Russians could take Western and Central Europe in a conventional war? They have neither the logistics nor the population to do that - not if the Europeans actually fund their own militaries appropriately. The EU GDP is over ten times that of Russia and has three times the population. There is no question Europe can defend itself if they have the will to do so. And if they don't have the will to do so, why the Hell should we?

ReluctantEskimo

Let me get this straight. You work for the travel industry. You don't think you have a vested interest in the continued stability of Europe? The consequences of a full-blown war in Europe will be wide-reaching and global.

Not only has Putin and the Kremlin made overtures of getting the Soviet Bloc back together, but the abandonment of our allies would permanently downgrade the United States as world leaders. The power vacuum would throw everything into chaos.

But please, go on posting your 1000th article about expired German ammuntion. And nothing about the Kremlin's desires to march to Warsaw.