John Carr

Agreed. Too bad they’ve never really proven to be willing nor adept at that.

The Balkans being a prime example.

Hubcapped

And if they are incapable, do we let Russia conquer its neighbors with force?

If you answer is yes, where do we draw the line? Romania? Lithuania? How many would be too many?

Excargodog

It is certainly not that black or white:



An excerpt:
But the problem isn’t that it is or is not somewhat of a democracy. Very few of the countries in the world meet or exceed our level of democracy, and a great many are being picked on or are picking on adjoining countries or ethnic groups or nationalities within their own countries



I see no reason to assume the job of world policeman any longer, especially not in Europe where the bulk of the NATO members continue to renege on their promises.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato...pending-goals/

That make it clear enough to you?

rickair7777

One third-world shiate-hole picking on another third-world shiate-hole? Perhaps we don't have the will or bandwidth to address every one of those.

But a world power moving a mechanized army across Europe in the direction of our allies? Yeah, that's a problem for global stability and needs to be nipped in the bud.

We're not just saving tax-delinquent allies, we're saving the world order, which we benefit from. We could go isolationist and hide behind two big oceans and a thermonuclear palisade, but any rational calculus would show us losing at least 50% of our GDP.

Hubcapped

Sure does, you’re an isolationist that doesn’t understand how a global power maintains global power. I also believe you do not understand that a good defense starts with a good offense.

Tyranny versus freedom. Stand for something…..

Regardless you never answered the follow up. How many countries can Russia conquer before you feel it’s warranted to stop them? Be specific please

Excargodog

Our Allies that have been feckless for a half century. Lord save us from weal allies. And ungrateful ones. I spent years listening to these “allies” explaining to me that the only purpose of the Marshall Plan was to rebuild Europe as a customer for US products. Such Eurocentric theories persist still:

https://www.econlib.org/the-eu-gover...protectionism/

https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...e-environment/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/12/08...electric-cars/

https://www.politico.eu/article/oecd...obal-tax-deal/

I am not per se isolationist, but I have come by my contempt for feckless allies honestly, through experience and the loss of good friends.

And at 8% inflation rate (or greater), 50% of GDP is what? Less than six years of current inflation compounded annually?

For those who have never lived in Europe, there is a lot of history, and over the millennia everybody has done everybody wrong at one time or another. And they hold grudges much stronger and longer than even the most hard core US nationalists. Ask the Basque, the Catalonians, the Scots, or many others…

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/d...ist-movements/

Excargodog

.

Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel. I put my time in the service, as did my father before me, and his father before him, including multiple tours in Europe and the Middle East.

Regardless you never answered the follow up. How many countries can Russia conquer before you feel it’s warranted to stop them? Be specific please[/QUOTE]

Well, the Russians appear to be nicely overextended with their present situation and I suppose you could work a diplomatic solution by simply allowing them to keep the Russian speaking and culturally Russian areas they now occupy. It’ll be decades before either those areas or the Ukraine is restored to some semblance of what they once were. That may well be a lesson that teaches itself, although I doubt it will have any lasting effect on western Europes defense budgets.

METO Guido

Go on pretending it's 1950. Confront global tyranny wherever it rises. Deliver room, board & medical care for economic refugees crossing by the millions. Render debt ceilings meaningless. Send your Superman uniform to the dry cleaners and have the company pay for it?

Hubcapped

And why are they over extended? How did the Ukrainians manage this?

To get this straight, you don’t support helping Ukraine, but then use that support as the pillar of curbing Russian aggression in the future? Copy. You argue against yourself lol.

450k dudes died to keep Europe free from tyranny. Sending equipment is the least we can do to keep honor with those dead. Not to mention stay a global power

Just have courage and answer the question man, you say Europe can’t do it….so how many countries have to fall? What is an acceptable number?

Is Moldova an acceptable piece of meet to throw at them? Poland? Check? Let’s go dude answer the question

The reality is you won’t because one is too many and all of them will see the rise of the USSR again. Is that what you want? At this point I think you are coming across as a Russian sympathizer tbh

When a tyrannical 1st world government invades a smaller country to seize europes bread basket and access to the Black Sea, it should be all hands on deck to shut that sh1t down. Unless you are a coward

Hubcapped

Meto, with all do respect I don’t understand half of what you say. I want to, and I have a feeling English is your second language, but you’ve got to have easily understandable coherent thoughts for people to track