Excargodog

Nobody likes a liar, nor do you get debate points for being one.

and no, you didn’t erase your lie fast enough to not get called on it.

Hubcapped

i changed it because i was incorrect. And thus …..changed it. Do you think I really didnt know that all 400kplus deaths weren’t in Europe? Come on dude, have a conversation on the points….being pedantic is for weak people that have no stance. Lets go sunshine…….

400k dead to establish security for the globe (europe included), added to the 10% annual dod budget, plus antiquated equipment seem like a reasonable exchange for being involved in europes stability.

europes stability is important because of trade, travel, nuclear security, geopolitical influence, and allies against chine


refute or debate the above statements. Calling me a liar is just a sidetrack that doesn’t actually work because i didnt lie, i was incorrect and changed my statement. Stop being petty and have a discussion.


or just dig your heels into the chaff because you dont like the meat……come on brother….have a discussion

I laid out very specific points on why europe is our problem, please stop being childish and counter those points.

Excargodog

No, you ASSERTED that Europe was somehow our problem and our responsibility. YOU made the assertion. You get to prove your points. ASSERTING IT doesn’t make it true. I could ASSERT that our number one priority is an imminent invasion by Martians. If indeed true, that might well be correct, but me asserting it doesn’t make it so.

Similarly your bogus 400k plus figure doesn’t stand up. The DOD claims 291k. One would think they would know. Even if you toss in WW1 (53k) that doesn’t get you to 400+k. Of course most of those WW1 casualties were fighting against the Germans. I doubt the Kaiser was significantly more autocratic than his cousin George V, on whose side we were fighting. Do we really count those? And how do we count our casualties in prior wars? Do they count in your alleged 400k plus? Because BOTH world wars still don’t get us to 400k plus according to DOD stats. Are you adding in any other deaths? If so, from where and when. Otherwise, that’s STILL a lie.

Take a European history class and stop being so gullible.

Hubcapped

total us service men killed during ww2 was just over 400. That came from your quote. If we weren’t on a war footing we would not have had 16 million people in uniform and thus the extra 100k deaths………..please stop being pedantic. Its petty and avoids the issue.

european stability is important because of:
trade, travel, nuclear security, and geopolitical influence
trade: we trade, instability disrupts trade
travel: money via travel goes back and forth
nuclear security: a france or england on the ropes against RU violating their territory risks the escalation of nuclear force
geopolitical influence: we lose a say at the table. The impact of that should be self evident

there I explained it. Im also a big liar, i thought that all deaths for US troops were solely in eirope and nothing in africa or the pacific, i purposefully said this as a knowing lie to cover up the fact i thought that we magically did not sustain a single casualty at guadal or iwo or tarawa, (even though i retracted my post and specifically changed it to not be misleading lol)

Please stop running, its quite obvious you dont want to address the issue.

I’ve clearly laid out why it’s important we have a stable europe, I’ve explained the costs weve already paid for European stability.

refute the statements pigeon……..or keep wiggling. If you continue to use semantics to get out of answering…..well it’s obvious you have nothing of value to say

Excargodog

Nonsense. Lying is bad, and quibbling to pretend you didn’t doesn’t change that.

Hubcapped

what exactly was the lie…be specific

I answered your desire for information:
european stability is important because of:
trade, travel, nuclear security, and geopolitical influence
trade: we trade, instability disrupts trade
travel: money via travel goes back and forth
nuclear security: a france or england on the ropes against RU violating their territory risks the escalation of nuclear force
geopolitical influence: we lose a say at the table. The impact of that should be self evident

stop wiggling pigeon, it’s obvious
you are choosing to not answer because you have no answer other than the magic light propaganda box told you to act this way. If you were a true student of history you would unequivocally know that an unstable europe
Is not in our best interest. The fact that you are using me saying that 400k dudes died during ww2 as an excuse to semantic your way out of this is just laughable at best, craven at worst. I started this conversation civilly, it didnt go your way, now you predictably take the cowards path out….good work

Excargodog

Give FACTS that demonstrate that Ukraine is OUR problem.

Hubcapped

european stability is important because of:
trade, travel, nuclear security, and geopolitical influence
trade: we trade, instability disrupts trade. Exports were $592.0 billion; imports were $723.3 billion in 2022
travel: money via travel goes back and forth
pre covid roughly 20 million people traveled between the us and eu or eu to us.
nuclear security: a france or england on the ropes against RU violating their territory risks the escalation of nuclear force. Self evident.
geopolitical influence: we lose a say at the table wrt world political decisions. Self evident.
We need future allies against ru, iran, and china that will trust us to follow through...self evident.

refute that a war between RU and EU would not disrupt the above.

objectively we have met our goal, RU ability to prosecute future wars for decades will be nonexistent. The question now is do you let ukraine be swallowed to feed the bear, and the ensuing loss of political capital that would entail if we walk right now.

Lowslung

I don’t think your conversation with Excargodog is going to be productive. My twelve year old is more capable of having an adult conversation than he is. Thankfully, at the moment at least, the majority of this country is still capable of seeing why investing in the security of Europe (and elsewhere) is a good idea. Unfortunately, there is a contingent of the media and lawmakers who appear intent on spreading the narrative of dictators and strongmen (coincidentally not unlike those who insist Hamas is a group of freedom fighters). There will likely always be a supply of folks only too ready to bite off, especially when politically expedient.

Excargodog

Nobody said there wasn’t commerce between the US and Europe.
Nobody claimed a war wouldn’t disrupt that.
Nobody claimed that wars are good or not a problem.
But that wasn’t the issue that was asked about. The issue was: