Search

Notices
Hangar Talk For non-aviation-related discussion and aviation threads that don't belong elsewhere

Ukraine conflict

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-02-2023, 07:20 AM
  #1511  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
And what would make you think I would value the opinion of someone who misrepresents others postings, clearly disrespects anyone who has a different opinion, calls people names, and slings about allegations of being a Commie dupe? Or feel compelled to dance to their tune with strawman questions. It’s hardly like you have any objectivity that can be won over regardless of facts presented. So yeah, I’ll just keep on doing what I’m doing, thank you.

E

An excerpt:
what metric are you using to claim the EU is not stepping up? Please be specific
Hubcapped is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 10:08 AM
  #1512  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Default

Originally Posted by Hubcapped
what metric are you using to claim the EU is not stepping up? Please be specific
What makes you think I owe you any answers at all when you have been entirely disrespectful to me? Please be specific.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 10:24 AM
  #1513  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Default Another voice heard from…



https://www.politico.com/news/2023/1...e-aid-00119380


Excerpts:
The next three months are critical, according to interviews with more than a dozen lawmakers and aides in both parties, and Republicans are signaling that the best shot at delivering Ukraine the weapons it needs will require a single funding bill that can last through the 2024 election, avoiding a series of protracted battles that could sap momentum.
“It’s obvious that there’s some fatigue. And so my own view is we need to do it one time,” said Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas). “We don’t want to do this again every three months. Obviously, that’s open for discussion. But I’m for one and done.”

Democrats’ anger over the episode over the past few days is palpable. Mild-mannered Democratic Sen. Michael Bennet of Colorado was so upset by the lack of Ukraine funding that he delayed action on the bill until late Saturday night. The majority party is now recalibrating how to move forward.

“We need a little time to go back to the drawing board,” Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) said late Saturday. “A lot of us were caught off guard by how the last 24 hours went.”

In the House Republican Conference, even some of Ukraine’s once-strongest allies have revolted against more cash. Many Republican senators are still on board with helping the country, but they turned against their own bill on Saturday in support of a Ukraine-free House funding bill to avoid a shutdown.

Meanwhile, former President Donald Trump, a Ukraine aid skeptic, is marching toward the party’s presidential nomination.

“There’s going to have to be a major debate in this country,” added Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), the No. 3 Senate leader and one of the many Republicans who retreated from insisting on Ukraine funding when the alternative was a potential shutdown. It was an argument many made privately over the past week — but not McConnell.

McConnell, the chief GOP proponent of defending Ukraine against Russia, spoke to both national security adviser Jake Sullivan and Secretary of State Antony Blinken in the days before the Sept. 30 shutdown deadline, according to people familiar with the conversations in Congress and the Biden administration.

McConnell informed the administration that its three-month, $24 billion Ukraine request could never ride on a short-term stopgap bill, and argued for the legislation to instead provide flexibility and transfer authority — flexibility to move around existing money and resources — to buy time; he did not want a shutdown over Ukraine aid.

On Sept. 24, Blinken told McConnell that Ukraine needed money; McConnell ultimately agreed to support the request.

Two days later, the bill came out with $6 billion for Ukraine and was dismissed out of hand by the House GOP. Then, on Friday, Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) told House Speaker Kevin McCarthy that Senate Republicans could get behind a funding bill that was silent on Ukraine but included billions in disaster relief, according to a person familiar with the conversations. McCarthy introduced it a day later; only nine Senate Republicans ended up opposing that bill.

“Republicans listened and coordinated our efforts with the House,” said Scott, who regularly hosts conservatives in both chambers at his Capitol Hill townhouse.

Still, McConnell kept advocating for the Senate’s bill and its Ukraine funding up until Saturday’s party lunch, when it became clear the rest of the party simply wanted to avoid a shutdown. That sets the stage for a Ukraine fight later this year, possibly around the new Nov. 17 funding deadline or perhaps the end of the calendar year if Congress punts again.
“Senate leadership tried to get Ukraine jammed into the CR and they just got bucked. McConnell negotiated it in the CR. And he couldn’t carry the caucus,” said Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), who opposes more Ukraine funding. “That’s a big deal.”

Senate Democrats are trying to jump-start a standalone Ukraine funding bill this month in the aftermath of the failed effort to send $6 billion to Ukraine. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) said she believes there is bipartisan support for such a bill, though the timing and structure of the bill is “part of what all needs to be worked out.”

At some point Ukraine backers will have to decide whether attaching money to a must-pass spending bill is the best strategy given the pressures on McCarthy to keep his speakership. Ukraine funding opponent Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said any Senate action only “puts more pressure on [McCarthy] and makes his job harder.”

​​​​​​​
Excargodog is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 11:18 AM
  #1514  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 722
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
What makes you think I owe you any answers at all when you have been entirely disrespectful to me? Please be specific.
If you think you're doing anyone a service by cherrypicking opinion pieces and news articles that back your nihilistic stance, think again.
ReluctantEskimo is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 11:20 AM
  #1515  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
Default

Because you grabbed my post to refute my comment that EU was galvanized, and cant even come up with a metric to back up your childish response. What say you vlad?

i edited a rather verbose response. Because well……….pigeons
Hubcapped is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 11:47 AM
  #1516  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,902
Default

Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
If you think you're doing anyone a service by cherrypicking opinion pieces and news articles that back your nihilistic stance, think again.
Too broad. Philosophic pessimism, specifically evil/bad outperforms good on a regular basis. Common in this line of work. Professional soldier, airline pilot, patriot. Thanks to all who serve with best effort, regardless your position in this latest cause.
METO Guido is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 11:49 AM
  #1517  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Default

Had Europe been “galvanized” at any time over the last 30 years the Russians wouldn’t have attacked Ukraine. They made the decision to do so in full knowledge of how Western European nations had emasculated their military through year after year of taking “peace dividends.” For that matter, the Russians may well not even have taken Crimea if the countries of Western Europe - several of whom have GDPs greater than or equal to Russia INDIVIDUALLY - had actually paid more than lip service to their own defense requirements, Same thing for Western Europe becoming dependent on cheap Russian oil and gas. That was an unforced error.

My opinion - yours may differ, but how we got here now scarcely matters. Here we are.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 11:53 AM
  #1518  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Default

Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
If you think you're doing anyone a service by cherrypicking opinion pieces and news articles that back your nihilistic stance, think again.
Oh, I’m sure that SOME people want more objective assessment than just Ukraine fanboy stuff. I’ve already said both sides have their own propaganda. Are you taking exception to the Radio Free Europe story too? Do you believe that’s Commie propaganda as well?
Excargodog is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 12:20 PM
  #1519  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
Had Europe been “galvanized” at any time over the last 30 years the Russians wouldn’t have attacked Ukraine. They made the decision to do so in full knowledge of how Western European nations had emasculated their military through year after year of taking “peace dividends.” For that matter, the Russians may well not even have taken Crimea if the countries of Western Europe - several of whom have GDPs greater than or equal to Russia INDIVIDUALLY - had actually paid more than lip service to their own defense requirements, Same thing for Western Europe becoming dependent on cheap Russian oil and gas. That was an unforced error.

My opinion - yours may differ, but how we got here now scarcely matters. Here we are.
this is not an answer. You are lamenting what “was”. You refute my statement. What is your metric to claim that the EU is not adequately supporting Ukraine? What percentage of gdp? Lump sum?

the reality is you have no answer, you are a mouth piece for whatever propaganda magic box media crap you feel the incessant need to post here like no one can read subjective articles.

i have never once started a random subjective post, maybe you should do the same
Hubcapped is offline  
Old 10-02-2023, 12:48 PM
  #1520  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Default

Originally Posted by Hubcapped
this is not an answer. You are lamenting what “was”. You refute my statement. What is your metric to claim that the EU is not adequately supporting Ukraine? What percentage of gdp? Lump sum?

the reality is you have no answer, you are a mouth piece for whatever propaganda magic box media crap you feel the incessant need to post here like no one can read subjective articles.

i have never once started a random subjective post, maybe you should do the same
The reality is that YOU don’t get it. Your conduct her generally and with me personally has been such that you have forever forfeited any legitimacy to demand anything of me. Nor am I inclined to play your Sophist games. Zelensky himself has said REPEATEDLY that without continued US assistance the Ukrainians war against Russia is lost.





He knows full well how feckless his fellow European countries are, even the ones that aren’t actively boycotting Ukrainian products or vocally proRussian.

So if you want to claim that the five and a half million people in Norway have done more for the Ukraine than the United States, go for it. It’s a Sophist’s argument and only fools will believe it.
Excargodog is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Boeing Aviator
United
18
03-22-2022 12:04 PM
decrabbitz
FedEx
8
09-18-2021 11:22 PM
HerkDriver
Cargo
5
09-18-2007 02:56 PM
DiamondZ
Cargo
16
03-22-2007 11:38 AM
RockBottom
Hangar Talk
0
08-22-2006 08:35 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices