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Old 09-25-2023, 12:12 PM
  #1431  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped
so?
what is your point? Let ukraine be absorbed by russia? What is yourrrrrr pointttttt????
Let the feckless Europeans handle it. It is THEIR problem, not ours, and THEY need to either build sufficient forces to deter such things (which they haven’t done since the time of the Vikings) or be content to live with it. How have you not understood that?

Europe has tons of history and at one time or another everybody has done somebody wrong - probably multiple times. Many Europeans hate other Europeans for entirely valid reasons as well as pretty stupid ones that predate the existence of the USA.

NOT OUR PROBLEM.




NOT OUR PROBLEM



NOT OUR PROBLEM



NOT OUR. PROBLEM

Do you get it now?
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Old 09-25-2023, 12:35 PM
  #1432  
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…everybody in Europe has done somebody else wrong. Except too many people are simply ignorant of European history.



The Canadian Parliament gave a standing ovation to a literal Nazi on Friday, in case you’re wondering how the West’s proxy war against Russia in Ukraine is doing lately.

Led by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and visiting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, the assembly offered a standing ovation to Yaroslave Hunka, a Ukrainian Nazi who fought in World War II as part of one of the infamous Waffen-SS units. Zelensky even pumped his fist multiple times in solidarity with the former Nazi fighter.

Speaker Anthony Rota introduced Hunka and even thanked him for his service, vaguely describing him as “a Ukrainian Canadian war veteran from the Second World War who fought for Ukrainian independence against the Russians.” The admission that Hunka fought against the Soviets, who were allied with the United States against the Nazis for the majority of the war, probably should have been a hint.

Hunka’s Waffen-SS unit, which was comprised of ethnic Ukrainians, has been “accused of killing Polish and Jewish civilians, and [was] visited by SS leader Heinrich Himmler in 1944,” according to the Independent. Himmler, arguably Adolf Hitler’s No. 2 and the man responsible for centralizing the Nazis’ system of concentration camps, formed the Waffen-SS force that would become infamous during the war. Multiple Waffen-SS units were “proven to have committed numerous war crimes, most notoriously at Oradour-sur-Glane, Marzabotto and in the Malmedy massacre,” notes the Jewish Virtual Library.

The Canadian Parliament was justifiably berated for celebrating the Nazi veteran as a “Ukrainian hero and a Canadian hero.” The nonprofit Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies issued a statement, urging that “an apology is owed to every Holocaust survivor and veteran of the Second World War who fought the Nazis, and an explanation must be provided as to how this individual entered the hallowed halls of Canadian Parliament and received recognition from the Speaker of the House and a standing ovation.”

Two days later, Rota apologized, claiming he and other officials were unaware of the Ukrainian’s affiliation with the Nazis — despite clearly knowing that Hunka fought “against the Russians.”

“In my remarks following the address of the President of Ukraine, I recognized an individual in the gallery. I have subsequently become aware of more information which causes me to regret my decision to do so,” Rota said in a statement.

A spokeswoman for Trudeau threw Rota under the bus, saying, “no advance notice was provided to the Prime Minister’s Office, nor the Ukrainian delegation, about the invitation or the recognition. The Speaker had his own allotment of guest seating at Friday’s address, which were determined by the Speaker and his office alone.”
Neither Trudeau nor Zelensky has apologized for joining the applause.
And in fairness, Israel and the Wiesenthal Center need to let it go too. Chasing down and prosecuting someone who was an 18 year old typist in the commandant’s office when she is 97 is not seeking Justice, it’s a vendetta - which is also a European invention.

https://people.com/crime/nazi-typist...icity-murders/
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Old 09-25-2023, 11:14 PM
  #1433  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
NOT OUR. PROBLEM

Do you get it now?
Thankfully, internet warriors are not in charge of international policy. Those who cannot fathom or care about the ramifications of America's abdication of leadership don't deserve that sort of responsibility.
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Old 09-26-2023, 06:18 AM
  #1434  
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Originally Posted by ReluctantEskimo
Thankfully, internet warriors are not in charge of international policy. Those who cannot fathom or care about the ramifications of America's abdication of leadership don't deserve that sort of responsibility.
God didn’t give us the mission of settling every local grievance in the world. We aren’t even showing much ability to settle grievances within the United States right now. And you talk of ignorance? The entire Parliament of our nearest neighbor to the north gave a standing ovation to a member of the Waffen SS - who Poland now wants to expedite for war crimes - just because he once fought the Soviets WHILE THEY WERE ALLIES OF CANADA, THE US AND Great Britain because they were abysmally ignorant of history.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66919862

So tell me about America’s Manifest Destiny to lead the world. And do we now go into Gabon, Niger, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia, and every local conflict everywhere else in the world to enforce our leadership? And will it be any more successful than our twenty years of leadership in Afghanistan if we do?

Explain to me what you think I don’t understand.
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Old 09-26-2023, 07:17 AM
  #1435  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Do they have a one-to-one correlation? H€|| no. Real things seldom do. Does the larger country with the larger population GENERALLY win? Yes they do.
Refresh my memory. Did the North Vietnamese and Vietcong win against the South Vietnamese and US? The South Vietnamese and US had a larger population.

The reason the South Vietnamese and US lost was because the US military put constraints on their fighting and the U.S. political / public opinion turned against it. It had nothing to do with the larger population winning.
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Old 09-26-2023, 07:28 AM
  #1436  
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War should be the politics of last resort. And when we go to war, we should have a purpose that our people understand and support; we should mobilize the country's resources to fulfill that mission and then go in to win. In Vietnam, we had entered into a halfhearted half-war, with much of the nation opposed or indifferent, while a small fraction carried the burden. . . . I witnessed as much bravery in Vietnam as I expect to see in any war. . . . All this heroism and sacrifice are precisely the point; you do not squander courage and lives without clear purpose, without the country's backing and without full commitment. . .

Gen. Colin Powell
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Old 09-26-2023, 07:41 AM
  #1437  
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Originally Posted by TransWorld
Refresh my memory. Did the North Vietnamese and Vietcong win against the South Vietnamese and US? The South Vietnamese and US had a larger population.

The reason the South Vietnamese and US lost was because the US military put constraints on their fighting and the U.S. political / public opinion turned against it. It had nothing to do with the larger population winning.
Generalities are only GENERALLY true. The fact that you can cherry pick situations does not disprove the generality. There will always be incidents where time, place, and valor bring unexpected results. The Spartans lost at Thermopylae but their holding action probably saved Western Civilization.

That doesn’t mean that you want to send your kid to be one of 300 against 25,000 Persians.
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Old 09-26-2023, 08:17 AM
  #1438  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
God didn’t give us the mission of settling every local grievance in the world.
I don’t know what’s worse, the fact that you believe in God or that Russia invading Ukraine is a local conflict.

Russia has continuously advanced its borders over the last two decades. Every European nation believes they will not stop unless forced. Hell, even the US military general in charge of Europe that retired in 2017 also believes this. This is not a local conflict, but this is precedent for decades to come. you are not a student of history if you do not understand this basic concept.


The nice thing is that it doesn’t matter what you think. The people in charge completely disagree with you. You know the people that actually do this for a living?
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Old 09-26-2023, 08:22 AM
  #1439  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog

That doesn’t mean that you want to send your kid to be one of 300 against 25,000 Persians.
we aren’t sending troops, we are only sending about 2% of our annual DOD budget. Do not for one second argue as if anyone is asking to send US troops. That is a red herring of epic proportion.

As far as the Ukrainians, they aren’t asking anything…..Russia is invading their territory. How hard is this to understand? this can end any time Russia wants it to.

It’s kind of like you just want the Ukrainians to roll over and die, kind of disgusting

but regardless, with the EU help that did not falter in the winter of 22 like you said it would, Ukraine has broken the back of Russia. They will not be able to invade anyone for decades to come.
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Old 09-26-2023, 03:10 PM
  #1440  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Generalities are only GENERALLY true. The fact that you can cherry pick situations does not disprove the generality. There will always be incidents where time, place, and valor bring unexpected results. The Spartans lost at Thermopylae but their holding action probably saved Western Civilization.

That doesn’t mean that you want to send your kid to be one of 300 against 25,000 Persians.
Easy to slide through a loophole. Please refer to the quote from Colin Powell.
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