Excargodog

Nukes be damned?

ReluctantEskimo

Irony abounds. Isolationists give neither a thought to what the world would look like when America takes its ball and goes home. Nor do they acknowledge the fact that the United States wouldn't exist without foreign aid from France.

Small minds and no consequences for the America First crowd.

Stan446

You tell em.

METO Guido

Ask an Afghan, Pakistani, Lebanese. Palestinian, Viet, Cambodian. We refuse to learn. Don’t believe in high minded fast talkers trading arms, aid and glory for multinational blood $$$. Trust your eyes, empty wallet, missing limb bodies and flag draped coffins. Show us you can set right a broken nation, continent before attempting to fix a volatile planet on empty platitudes. uhh..gain

MaxQ

I was writing a lengthy reply, accidently hit something and it disappeared. My assertions will have to do, as too lazy to re-write it.
"We", and the West in general, are not on "the path". Ukraine and Russia are. Poland and the Baltics are readying themselves.
We flatter ourselves with our relevance.

Ukraine wants our weaponry so as to fight in a certain way. Without them, they fight in another way, but a way that will be much more difficult.
Ukraine is fighting an invading foreign army that has been beaten to the point where the invaders no longer have the willingness or morale to attempt to advance.
The lack of strength displayed by the Russian Army reflects the internal mess that is The Russian Federation. Ukraine knows that not only have they stopped the invasion, they are fighting an enemy that has such severe internal problems that they will eventually have no choice but to withdraw. Russia has other simmering security issues.

Just as 'we' overestimate America's contribution and influence in the collapse of the USSR, so to are we now overestimating our power and influence in the actions of both Ukraine and Russia.

Hubcapped

Talk about gas lighting. I wrote a long piece explaining to you how you are portraying yourself but then I remembered im playing chess with a pigeon. So ill leave this instead.

You should totally call the UA high command and tell them they wasted their time driving to robo deliberately. Im sure they dont know what they are doing. You definitely dont look like a fool for not understanding that robo was important nor how arty works and how they are fighting this war. You definitely dont look like a coward for not admitting you were wrong about your understanding of robo, nor your position on the EU after posting countless articles like a good little russian troll. Reagan would be rolling in his grave. Go get em pigeon.

I remember once when i was the IP in a IPUG opsat. Im number 2, number 3 was a LtCol weasel of a man that no one liked. He got himself and his wingman “killed”. We go into the debrief snd it’s obvious from the playback by looking at his radar that when he turned around and squared up on red air, he completely lost SA and went inside MAR and got schwacked. The student (#1) tried politely to bring this up snd you know what he said?

i quote verbatim “ i was waiting for #4 to call the out to see if he is paying attention “. Mind you we could all see him hunting for the radar contacts on his radar via the tapes, he just had the wrong bullseye cut in his head and was looking in the wrong place. I stopped the debrief and called him out in front of everyone cause i was about to get out and didn’t give a crap and ultimatly as the IP of record this flight was mine to debrief despite the upgrading flight lead.

pardon the long story, but the point is, you will never get respect back by digging in your heels when it’s obvious to everyone and their mom that you were wrong, the only way out is to admit your mistake, learn, and move along. Its frankly sad to see someone who is obviously a boomer still not understand this.

whee rant over, i will not post again today as ive now reached my internal limit.

slava ukraine

METO Guido

Mostly Agree here. Bear in mind an entire demographic of Slavic youth condemned to slog on from dugout positions they’ll never return from. I take no solace in Russian losses. The US must account for its two faced complicity by stepping up pressure for truce. No matter where the negotiated line is ultimately drawn, here’s how this ends. https://youtu.be/9zb2xWGdLD4?si=5flU1Tr714Wyhc7D

rickair7777

From our cold, REALPOLITIK perspective, our mission is accomplished... RU got spanked hard and humiliated, and will spend many years licking their wounds and trying to understand how and why they effed up so bad. They wouldn't dare even look sideways at Poland right now.

How long this drags out is heavily influenced by the UA people. I tend to agree it's gone on long enough from *our* perspective, and would fully support at least a negotiated armistice.

But if Ukrainians are still willing to fight for their country, and Russians are still willing to offer up their boys on the alter of Vlad's delusional ambitions, that's more their concern than mine.

At some point we'll need to push for settlement simply to stop spending money and munitions on a stalemate, but we're not there yet.

Excargodog

Ukrainian servicemen riding a tank near the village of Robotyne, in Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia region, last month.Credit...Viacheslav Ratynskyi/Reuters

THE BATTLE: Ukraine’s counteroffensive, launched in early June, aims to reclaim land in the south and east of the country. Its goal in the south is to reach the Sea of Azov and drive a wedge through Russian-occupied territory, and its main effort so far has been in the direction of the city of Melitopol. Last week, Ukrainian forces said that they had retaken the village of Robotyne, breaching the first of several tiers of formidable defenses that Russia has built in the south, and that they were moving toward another defensive line.

THE LATEST: Military analysts say that in recent days Ukrainian forces have been battling to break through the next Russian defensive line near the village of Verbove, nine miles east of Robotyne. Groups that study open-source information on the war say that Ukrainian forces have cleared some Russian entrenchments there, although it is unclear if they have retaken and secured territory in the area.

The Black Bird Group, a volunteer organization that analyzes satellite imagery and social media content from the battlefield, said on Monday that Ukrainian forces had reached Russian infantry fighting positions in the outskirts of Verbove, meaning they had made it past some anti-tank ditches and obstacles.

Oleksandr Shtupun, a spokesman for the Ukrainian Army in the south, told national television that the Russian trenches and dugouts that Kyiv’s forces were now encountering were “not as strong” as on the first line of defense. But he added that Russian minefields would complicate Ukraine’s push forward, and military analysts have suggested that Moscow has reinforced its defenses south of Robotyne with more troops.

WHY IT MATTERS: The retaking of Robotyne marked a significant moment in Ukraine’s efforts to sever Moscow’s supply lines to occupied Crimea. Its push from Robotyne east to Verbove is aimed at widening the breach that its forces have created in Russia’s layers of defenses, military analysts Michael Kofman and Rob Lee wrote in a paper published on Monday. Expanding that breach is crucial because “a narrow advance could leave its forces vulnerable to counterattacks on the flanks,” they said.

Widening and securing that gap would also allow Ukrainian forces to bring in more equipment and personnel to support their advance south. A strategic target in this push appears to be the city of Tokmak, a road-and-rail hub about 15 miles south of Robotyne.

To reach Tokmak, Ukrainian forces would have to fully break through the defenses around Verbove and then breach additional layers. This suggests a slow and exhausting fight that could take several more months, with a likelihood of mounting casualties on both sides.

— Constant Méheut and Thomas Gibbons-Neff

Excargodog

Well, everyone has pretty much exhausted their supply of Cold War era obsolete/obsolescent munitions and equipment so I imagine this will start winding down. I doubt seriously Congress is going to give the administration a blank check on Ukraine funding - particularly with McConnell seemingly in the decline. I remain skeptical that our NATO allies are going to actually be willing to fund their own defense over the long haul though.