Ukraine conflict
08-27-2023, 10:46 AM
#1181
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
Anyone with actual eyes on the fighting please tell us what’s going on, by all means. Otherwise it’s indeed, who ARE you going to believe? UK intelligence? US intelligence (the guys who assured us Afghan forces after 20 years of training and support could stand on their own and not fold to the Taliban in THREE FRIGGIN’ DAYS? ). The politicians? The people who believe that 40 year old F-16 A/B models that the Netherlands has been selling off to the Chileans and Jordanians for over ten years (for as little as $4 million each 15 years ago) are going to magically give the Ukrainians air superiority in a high threat environment? Or that 30 Abrams are going to turn the tide of battle?
Both sides are lying to us - that’s called propaganda and is par for the course in any war. Both sides are over claiming gains and under claiming losses.
So your best bet to see what is REALLY going on is to look at all sorts of intel and do the best you can to objectively sort the wheat from the chaff, as much as that may offend fan-boys on either side.
Both sides are lying to us - that’s called propaganda and is par for the course in any war. Both sides are over claiming gains and under claiming losses.
So your best bet to see what is REALLY going on is to look at all sorts of intel and do the best you can to objectively sort the wheat from the chaff, as much as that may offend fan-boys on either side.
Research MLU f-16
08-27-2023, 12:16 PM
#1182
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Research MLU F-16s that were sold to Jordan and Chile. The Netherlands valued their aircraft in 2008 at about $4 million an aircraft.
They had already contracted to sell half of these aircraft to Draken for use as Red Air opponents when the USAF decided they were o longer suitable to even be used as training targets against fifth generation aircraft despite their MLU upgrades and a partial Have Glass upgrade.
These are still 40 year old A and B models with the original P&W F-100-PW-200 engines and AN/APG radars. And they’ve been yanking and banking for 40 years. Expecting them to even FLY in an environment so hostile that fifth generation fighters can’t do it far less somehow dominate in that environment is pretty unrealistic. There is a REASON the Netherlands was offering these for sale to Kraken for about the same price as a new Cessna 208.
I know you are a Ukrainian fan-boy and I don’t blame you for that - I’d prefer they won too, but that’s sure not the smart way to bet and getting a bunch of F-16s in the late Fall or winter isn’t going to change the odds much.
They had already contracted to sell half of these aircraft to Draken for use as Red Air opponents when the USAF decided they were o longer suitable to even be used as training targets against fifth generation aircraft despite their MLU upgrades and a partial Have Glass upgrade.
These are still 40 year old A and B models with the original P&W F-100-PW-200 engines and AN/APG radars. And they’ve been yanking and banking for 40 years. Expecting them to even FLY in an environment so hostile that fifth generation fighters can’t do it far less somehow dominate in that environment is pretty unrealistic. There is a REASON the Netherlands was offering these for sale to Kraken for about the same price as a new Cessna 208.
I know you are a Ukrainian fan-boy and I don’t blame you for that - I’d prefer they won too, but that’s sure not the smart way to bet and getting a bunch of F-16s in the late Fall or winter isn’t going to change the odds much.
08-27-2023, 12:55 PM
#1183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: Cl65 left
Posts: 175
Its pretty funny to watch these russbot vatniks freak out after i just post a one point of data objective statement.
If you follow the war every day, and dont just clickbait somewhere to find a random op ed piece to fit your narrative, you may not look like such a clown by not understanding why robo was important.
If you follow the war every day, and dont just clickbait somewhere to find a random op ed piece to fit your narrative, you may not look like such a clown by not understanding why robo was important.
08-27-2023, 01:51 PM
#1185
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
Research MLU F-16s that were sold to Jordan and Chile. The Netherlands valued their aircraft in 2008 at about $4 million an aircraft.
They had already contracted to sell half of these aircraft to Draken for use as Red Air opponents when the USAF decided they were o longer suitable to even be used as training targets against fifth generation aircraft despite their MLU upgrades and a partial Have Glass upgrade.
These are still 40 year old A and B models with the original P&W F-100-PW-200 engines and AN/APG radars. And they’ve been yanking and banking for 40 years. Expecting them to even FLY in an environment so hostile that fifth generation fighters can’t do it far less somehow dominate in that environment is pretty unrealistic. There is a REASON the Netherlands was offering these for sale to Kraken for about the same price as a new Cessna 208.
I know you are a Ukrainian fan-boy and I don’t blame you for that - I’d prefer they won too, but that’s sure not the smart way to bet and getting a bunch of F-16s in the late Fall or winter isn’t going to change the odds much.
They had already contracted to sell half of these aircraft to Draken for use as Red Air opponents when the USAF decided they were o longer suitable to even be used as training targets against fifth generation aircraft despite their MLU upgrades and a partial Have Glass upgrade.
These are still 40 year old A and B models with the original P&W F-100-PW-200 engines and AN/APG radars. And they’ve been yanking and banking for 40 years. Expecting them to even FLY in an environment so hostile that fifth generation fighters can’t do it far less somehow dominate in that environment is pretty unrealistic. There is a REASON the Netherlands was offering these for sale to Kraken for about the same price as a new Cessna 208.
I know you are a Ukrainian fan-boy and I don’t blame you for that - I’d prefer they won too, but that’s sure not the smart way to bet and getting a bunch of F-16s in the late Fall or winter isn’t going to change the odds much.
08-27-2023, 02:51 PM
#1187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: Cl65 left
Posts: 175
08-27-2023, 04:13 PM
#1189
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Only one of the reasons there isn’t a lot of flying by anyone past the FEBA
The problem for the F-16s is that the Russians have missiles that severely out range the AMRAAM.
As for the JDAMS, the problems are twofold.
1. You have to actually deliver it - which is an issue considering both the SAM and count air threat
2. It can still be spoofed
An excerpt:
Although Russia’s GNSS jamming activities may not be cost-free from an electromagnetic fratricide and hard kill vulnerability perspective, the leaked US documents show that it is having an impact. Jamming is not causing the JDAMs to stop working, but it is risking their accuracy – arguably a key selling point of the weapon. This is a potential problem when comparatively small targets are being engaged. US GNSS engineers may have to rethink how they safeguard JDAMs for the wars of tomorrow, based on the conflicts of today.
08-27-2023, 04:37 PM
#1190
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
The whole theater of operations has AMRAAMS up the wazoo, They are called NASAMS.
Only one of the reasons there isn’t a lot of flying by anyone past the FEBA
The problem for the F-16s is that the Russians have missiles that severely out range the AMRAAM.
As for the JDAMS, the problems are twofold.
1. You have to actually deliver it - which is an issue considering both the SAM and count air threat
2. It can still be spoofed
An excerpt:
Only one of the reasons there isn’t a lot of flying by anyone past the FEBA
The problem for the F-16s is that the Russians have missiles that severely out range the AMRAAM.
As for the JDAMS, the problems are twofold.
1. You have to actually deliver it - which is an issue considering both the SAM and count air threat
2. It can still be spoofed
An excerpt:
if you launch an amraam in dcs at 500 feet 200 knots, will it go further than say launching an amraam at 36k (harrumph) going 1.2?
we’ve discussed jdams already. Your misunderstanding of our weapons has not changed.
please stop click baiting articles of which the subject matter you don’t understand.
its amazing by saying “will have an impact” how much the rusbots copium comes out
Last edited by Hubcapped; 08-27-2023 at 05:11 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
