Ukraine conflict
07-28-2023, 09:12 AM
#1062
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Yet both are from the same source - the BBC - indicating that between the propaganda of both sides we are all like the blind men and the elephant, each with only a small piece of the big picture which we interpret according to our preexisting biases. I know senior officers - honorable men all - that were swearing that the Afghan government woukd at least last a few years after our withdrawal. Having poured years of their own youth and lives of their own subordinates into a twenty year effort to create a modern country with quasi-Western values it would have been too painful for them to have held any other opinion.
07-29-2023, 06:59 AM
#1063
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
Another voice heard from…
an excerpt:
Some six weeks into the Ukrainian counteroffensive, things are not going as planned. Although damage estimates vary, Ukraine has lost significant numbers of men and weapons, while making negligible progress against formidable Russian defenses.
Despite vigorous recruiting and conscription efforts, Ukraine has too few soldiers to muster the three-to-one manpower advantage generally considered necessary for a successful offensive. Its supplies of artillery shells and anti-aircraft missiles, vital to battlefield success, are dwindling. As a result, Russia’s air force—which was sparingly used last year in the face of effective Ukrainian air defenses—is now operating more actively near the front lines, devastating Ukraine’s attacking forces.
Finger-pointing for this failure is already underway. Increasingly, Ukrainian officials openly blame the West for not providing enough armor, aircraft, artillery, missiles, and ammunition. Anonymous American officials blame the Ukrainians for not conducting Western-style combined arms operations to outmaneuver and outpace their plodding Russian opponents.
Despite vigorous recruiting and conscription efforts, Ukraine has too few soldiers to muster the three-to-one manpower advantage generally considered necessary for a successful offensive. Its supplies of artillery shells and anti-aircraft missiles, vital to battlefield success, are dwindling. As a result, Russia’s air force—which was sparingly used last year in the face of effective Ukrainian air defenses—is now operating more actively near the front lines, devastating Ukraine’s attacking forces.
Finger-pointing for this failure is already underway. Increasingly, Ukrainian officials openly blame the West for not providing enough armor, aircraft, artillery, missiles, and ammunition. Anonymous American officials blame the Ukrainians for not conducting Western-style combined arms operations to outmaneuver and outpace their plodding Russian opponents.
07-29-2023, 07:02 AM
#1064
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
And another…
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, July 28, 2023
Jul 28, 2023 - Press ISW
Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations in at least three sectors of the front and reportedly advanced near Bakhmut on July 28. Ukrainian military officials stated that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations on the northern and southern flanks of Bakhmut, and Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated on July 27 that Ukrainian forces continued advancing south of Bakhmut. A Russian milblogger claimed on July 28 that Ukrainian forces advanced near Kurdyumivka and Andriivka. Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks along the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border near Staromayorske (9km south of Velyka Novosilka) and Urozhaine (9km south of Velyka Novosilka), and some milbloggers acknowledged that Ukrainian forces captured Staromayorske on July 27. A Ukrainian source claimed that Ukrainian forces have advanced to within 10-12 kilometers of the main Russian defensive line in the Berdyansk direction. Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian ground attacks near Robotyne (10km south of Orikhiv), Verbove (17km southeast of Orikhiv), and Pyatykhatky (25km southwest of Orikhiv) in western Zaporizhia Oblast. Russian “Vostok” Battalion Commander Alexander Khodakovsky stated that Ukrainian forces can conduct strikes against the full depth of defending Russian forces and that these strikes are killing Russian commanders and degrading Russian command and control. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the 247th Guards Air Assault (VDV) Regiment (7th VDV Division) refused to go to combat near Staromayorske due to heavy Russian losses and Ukrainian battlefield victories.
08-01-2023, 01:28 PM
#1065
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,252
08-01-2023, 04:16 PM
#1068
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Posts: 12,252
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...urning-russia/
What they targeted, nobody but the Ukrainians know.
But what they actually DID was blow six or seven windows out of a tall skyscraper. That’s unlikely to put the fear of God (or the Ukraine) into anybody. But just as 9/11 got the US upset and stimulated thousands of people to join the military:
In the year after 9/11, more people enlisted in the military than in any year since. In the first full recruitment after the attacks, 181,510 Americans joined the ranks of active duty service and 72,908 enlisted in the reserves.
The Machiavelli quote - if it is too subtle for you - sorta means it’s a bad idea to gratuitously pi$$ off your enemy. Hitting them hard enough to make a difference and actually deter or weaken them is one thing, but this is almost an insult coupled with a show of weakness. It’s not gonna have much of a deterrent effect and could well be counterproductive.
That was Machiavelli’s take anyway. Your opinion may differ.
08-01-2023, 04:54 PM
#1069
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,466
The “desired effect” one would assume, is to gain advantage in their war with Russia - ostensibly by showing the Russian people that even people in their major cities were vulnerable and that the Ukraine could - as Zelensky said - “Return the war to Russia.”
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...urning-russia/
What they targeted, nobody but the Ukrainians know.
But what they actually DID was blow six or seven windows out of a tall skyscraper. That’s unlikely to put the fear of God (or the Ukraine) into anybody. But just as 9/11 got the US upset and stimulated thousands of people to join the military:
This might backfire.
The Machiavelli quote - if it is too subtle for you - sorta means it’s a bad idea to gratuitously pi$$ off your enemy. Hitting them hard enough to make a difference and actually deter or weaken them is one thing, but this is almost an insult coupled with a show of weakness. It’s not gonna have much of a deterrent effect and could well be counterproductive.
That was Machiavelli’s take anyway. Your opinion may differ.
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...urning-russia/
What they targeted, nobody but the Ukrainians know.
But what they actually DID was blow six or seven windows out of a tall skyscraper. That’s unlikely to put the fear of God (or the Ukraine) into anybody. But just as 9/11 got the US upset and stimulated thousands of people to join the military:
This might backfire.
The Machiavelli quote - if it is too subtle for you - sorta means it’s a bad idea to gratuitously pi$$ off your enemy. Hitting them hard enough to make a difference and actually deter or weaken them is one thing, but this is almost an insult coupled with a show of weakness. It’s not gonna have much of a deterrent effect and could well be counterproductive.
That was Machiavelli’s take anyway. Your opinion may differ.
reports indicates they targeted a russian propaganda center….you should call HQ and see if your boss is ok
08-01-2023, 05:42 PM
#1070
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Posts: 2,323
The “desired effect” one would assume, is to gain advantage in their war with Russia - ostensibly by showing the Russian people that even people in their major cities were vulnerable and that the Ukraine could - as Zelensky said - “Return the war to Russia.”
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...urning-russia/
What they targeted, nobody but the Ukrainians know.
But what they actually DID was blow six or seven windows out of a tall skyscraper. That’s unlikely to put the fear of God (or the Ukraine) into anybody. But just as 9/11 got the US upset and stimulated thousands of people to join the military:
This might backfire.
The Machiavelli quote - if it is too subtle for you - sorta means it’s a bad idea to gratuitously pi$$ off your enemy. Hitting them hard enough to make a difference and actually deter or weaken them is one thing, but this is almost an insult coupled with a show of weakness. It’s not gonna have much of a deterrent effect and could well be counterproductive.
That was Machiavelli’s take anyway. Your opinion may differ.
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...urning-russia/
What they targeted, nobody but the Ukrainians know.
But what they actually DID was blow six or seven windows out of a tall skyscraper. That’s unlikely to put the fear of God (or the Ukraine) into anybody. But just as 9/11 got the US upset and stimulated thousands of people to join the military:
This might backfire.
The Machiavelli quote - if it is too subtle for you - sorta means it’s a bad idea to gratuitously pi$$ off your enemy. Hitting them hard enough to make a difference and actually deter or weaken them is one thing, but this is almost an insult coupled with a show of weakness. It’s not gonna have much of a deterrent effect and could well be counterproductive.
That was Machiavelli’s take anyway. Your opinion may differ.
9/11 enhanced federal domestic powers to an previously unthinkable degree. GWOT meant old scores were settled and new vendettas were opened; tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths for countries that had nothing to do with it.
This sort of thing just enhances Putin's grip on power. Or someone worse; Russia is a nation state pursing national interests. Personalizing a nation state front man for a state like Russia is just as dumb as the rest of the world blaming American policy on the personal peccadillos on J. Biden. (They don't, because they're not morons. But we do, because "Putin bad" is the limit of most American's interest)
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