SonicFlyer

Right!





As distasteful as Putin's actions are, Ukraine has been part of Russia for all but 30 of the last 1000 years.



Not at all..... it's simply the words as they are written:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."




You need to read the Just War Theory, which is what the Founders based their policy on. War is the health of the government which is why only Congress declared it with the underlying premise being if we were attacked or about to be.

Hubcapped

Ok I have to chime in I can’t help it. And since we aren’t attempting to remain civil…..you are an absolute moron if you think Putin really believes the western nations of Europe have the desire or ability to invade Russia. If you truly believe otherwise you have no concept of military strategy, nor even the faintest understanding of the logistics involved. Putin knows this. Since when did the right start supporting Putin ffs? It’s so weird

Hubcapped

You don’t understand modern warfare as displayed by the completely ridiculous statement that the pats are there exclusively for 15k drones. Leave the arm chair quarter backing to people that have actually trained for this captain America

Excargodog

Strawman: No one said they would use them EXCLUSIVELY against $15K drones, they use them against the threat that presents itself.

While I certainly wouldn’t recommend wasting one on them, but as the reference I gave indicated (you ever actually read any of those?), that takes proper training. And it depends on the alternative. the Ukrainians are fast exhausting missiles for their S-300s and since the factory that makes them is in Russia resupply is problematic, although they might get some from Greece but only if the US gives Greece Patriots first to replace them:

​​​​​​​

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulidd...h=37c35cef3a37

of course that would seriously pi$$ off the Turks, but that’s life.

The Saudis pretty routinely use their Patriot missiles against cheap drones because if that’s the threat and you have nothing else in position to take it out, that’s what you use. How many preschoolers you gonna let die to avoid using a $2 million missile? Granted, a 50 kg warhead isn’t huge, but the hellfire missile’s warhead is only 9kg and they do a fair amount of damage. And a GBU-39 bomb is only about 93kg, and it’ll penetrate 3 ft of reinforced concrete. I would guess you haven’t dropped a lot of ordnance - and I think I probably understand modern ordnance at least as well as you do.

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/maj...ssile-tactical

So when do you think the Ukrainians will be adequately trained to use their new system? And why wouldn’t they use it against drones if that were the threat. A drone probably wouldn’t take out a nuclear reactor, but one landing in the spent fuel rod pool would make one h€|| of a mess.

MaxQ

Thank you Hub.

While countries that were under Soviet (and by extension that would make them under the First among Equals-Russia) control joining NATO would irritate Putin/Russia, Putin knew, and currently knows, that it was not done to set up a threat to The Russian Federation.

1.It happened so as to make new members to the EU feel as though they truly are welcome and part of The EU. 'You are a welcomed and valued partner of a new united and peaceful Europe. Home of the ideals of The Enlightenment. Of Liberal Democracy and the Rule of Law. A rejection of the horrors of the first half of the twentieth century. You have a right to be a member....and a right to participate in the unified commitments to defend all that it entails.'
Damn straight that NATO was, and is, important to post Soviet era Europe that eclipses just Putin. And Putin is well aware of this.

2. Every former Soviet-block nation is well aware that even if a tiger has its fur shaved off, it still has a striped skin. The metaphor being: the new Russia may claim to be a changed man-a believer in Democracy and civilized behavior. But we suspect that after shaving their Czarist/Stalinist/Communist stripes, underneath they are still the same autocratic, expansionist inheritors of the Old Imperium. It's the skin they have always worn, and they do not know how to change. Joining NATO is a way to assure safety from this predator that they have just recently escaped from. If Putin, or other Russian/Soviet apologizers have a problem with these countries joining NATO, they have only Russia's own long imperialistic history, and Putins 21st century rhetoric, to blame.

So yes, Putin whining about NATO expansion/threat is just pure performative BS. Unfortunately it sells very well with many people.

MaxQ

I am commenting on your stating that Ukraine has been part of Russia for last 1000 years. (less 30)

I will try to be brief.
This is absurd, but it does align with Russian revisionist history spread by Putin, Russian media, Zero Hedge and many other bad actors and clueless idiots. There are numerous history books that could provide some accurate history. The Gates of Europe by Serhii Plokhy is both recent and of high quality.

1000 years ago Russia didn't even exist. I won't give the blow by blow, but Ukraine came under the control of the Muskovy Czar due to an alliance that was made in 1654 when (during the Khmelnytsky Uprising) they lost their partnership with the Krimean Khanate during their revolt against the Polish rulers. This alliance did allow them (the Cossacks) to break free from Poland, but gradually they just exchanged one colonial ruler for another--The Czars of Muskovy, (who changed their name to Russia in (i think) 1721).
Bit of trivia, when Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea to Ukraine in 1954, it was not a coincidence that it was on a 300 year anniversary. This "gift" was a pointed reminder that they were a subordinate colony, a vassal state, whom could be either gifted or plundered at will.
While Russian imperialists like to speak of Ukraine being part of Russia, Ukrainians view themselves as having been an exploited and abused colony.
Ukraine is no more part of Russia than Ireland is part of England, or Algeria is part of France.

The internet is a poor place to educate oneself on subjects that go beyond quick facts.

JBird

No, seriously, I’m asking you for your sources that make you think American troops are in Ukraine fighting the russians.

Cite a reputable source or claim it as your uninformed speculation.

rickair7777

Indeed.

Modern Russians actually descended from tribes which migrated out of Ukraine in antiquity. Ukraine has been around for a long time, Russia not so much.

Russia's only claim to Ukraine is that they originated there. UR was never part of RU. It was part of the USSR, which Vlad is Quixotically trying to resurrect under a new banner.

BigZ

for the sake of the argument, neither did Ukraine. Kievan Rus' did though. Unless you read the new and improved history books, because then all bets are off. Had a dude try to convince me once that Jesus was Ukrainian, because Galicia = Galilee and all kinds of other "facts" I don't remember anymore. Would have been cute if the dude didn't have a PhD and didn't teach history in college.

MaxQ is doing great in the propaganda department though - that's how it's done - write passionate posts, randomly quote and agree with others, creates an illusion of "the whole world agrees", thank others for thoughtful posts, even if they are on a tangent. Spark discussions and make sure your voice is the loudest. Throw in a bunch of emotion for good measure.
Pay attention, ladies and gentlemen, for that's some quality head shrinking.

Hubcapped

Pay attention ladies and gentlemen, to someone attempting to refute a statement with no facts, and a random anecdote.