2StgTurbine

Countries with no income tax and no extradition:

Brunei
Kuwait
The Maldives
Oman
Somalia
The UAE

Take your pick

contrails12

i agree that it’s lazy to simply say “love it or leave it”. And saying that’s all that’s being said to you ignores the numerous posts by myself and others stating all the reasons you should stay. Just giving another option, among many, on how to deal with the slavery (in your view) that is taxation

you’re feigning oppression is just laughable seeing as you have benefited from our system greatly (as have I)

But let’s keep playing:

-So we determined that “the jungle” was purely fictional and in no way resembled reality of the industrial revolution. The levels of food borne illness, child labor, environmental damage is basically neutral now as then. Check.

-the FDA will be outsourced to a private third party that is beholden to those that they are regulating. The industry will pay the regulators and pass on the cost to us vice paying taxes to public entity that is accountable to voters. Got it.

so now, how do we handle criminal justice? Courts, and cops, prosecutors, and judges?

2StgTurbine

NE_Pilot is most likely a troll.

One of his reasons for why he shouldn't pay taxes is because he wasn't alive to vote when the income tax was created. With that logic every time someone is born, we would have to debate and vote on every single law.

NE_Pilot

There are multiple points being argued here, with multiple assumptions.

The Income Tax is Slavery Argument:
The basic premise here is that in both the income tax and the slave, the State and slave master claim first rights to the fruit of the labor of the citizen or slave. In the case of the income tax, the state claims your whole income, then decides how much you get to keep. In the case of a slave, the master claims the whole income and (usually) gives none to the slave. This is a matter of degree. They both rest on the idea of claiming the whole income first though. It is argued that the state provides you with services, and therefore you owe the state for these services. The slave master would also claim that they provide the slave with services (food, shelter, clothing) and therefore are owed the fruits of labor. In the case it is argued you are "free to leave" but as has been demonstrated you are not free to leave, there is a price that must be paid. The same can be said of the slave, they are free to leave, but there is a price that must be paid.

Taxation is Theft Argument:
The argument rests on the premise that a taking that is non-consensual is theft. Taxes are non-consensual takings and are therefore theft. Many seem to be conflating this with the idea that taxes may provide mutual benefits, and are therefore good. That is not the argument, if I take away booze from an alcoholic and help them rehabilitate, that may be considered good, but the non-consensual taking of the booze is still theft. If you believe theft in some circumstances is justified, then where does it end and why stop there? You would also have to show how taking by force is better than persuading someone to part with their property for the "greater good".

Government Regulation is Needed Argument:
The argument is based on the idea that without government oversight, people and businesses would run a muck and chaos and poor outcomes would abound. The major issue I see here is the idea of perverse incentives for government agencies and officials and lack of accountability, as discussed.

The "If you don't like it leave" Argument:
This, I believe, has been already shown to be a poor argument, that is self-defeating and whose proponents do not actually believe what they are saying nor do they practice it.

NE_Pilot

You have misconstrued the argument. You claimed that the revolution was based on the notion of "No Taxation without Representation" and that therefore since you currently have representation then said taxation is fine. I merely pointed to the fact that most taxes that are in place were passed before we were all born, and therefore by your logic you are subjected to taxation without representation. One who is not born cannot have their interests represented, and clearly has no vote, do you disagree? Or do you believe that taxation without representation is fine?

contrails12

I’ll ask again: how do we dispense justice in this tax free society?

NE_Pilot

I have never claimed to be oppressed. I just find it odd that so many people who claim that "you are free to leave" do not realize that it is not true. Do you not find it odd that you cannot leave freely? That you must first be granted permission to leave? What purpose is there in preventing those who wish to leave from leaving? If this country is so great, why prevent people from leaving? Why aren't the individual states free to leave if their people vote to do so? This boils down to the idea that the State views the people and the land as property.

There have been and do currently exist private courts and private police forces.

Here is an interesting article about it, I am not advocating for or against this particular model: https://columbialawreview.org/conten...all-around-us/

It may not be perfect, but neither is the current system. The point is that there are solutions that do not involve government and that may be better and more accountable. Further, competing systems are more like to bring out better outcomes, as those systems that work will be adopted and gain traction while systems that don't will be abandoned. Bad ideas in business die fast, bad ideas in government may never die.

JamesNoBrakes

I think you are misunderstanding: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...ty-Abroad.html

If you have a prior obligation, you must meet it, just like if you owe money on a loan, you don't just get released from debt obligations because you renounced citizenship.

If you want to be FREE of income and other taxes though, you can renounce your citizenship and move away. I don't see any significant costs or charges associated with this. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what these costs are that only you know about.

When you start your own country, you won't have to recognize any US laws. FATCA is for US taxpayers. If you aren't a US citizen (or business) you aren't a US taxpayer.

I'll ask the question again, how are you not free to leave?

contrails12

taxation being slavery and/or theft sounds pretty oppressive to me

so how is this private police force and/or courts paid for?

you ARE free to leave. You can camp out on our BLM land tax free.

OOfff

Oh man, that logic 😂😂😂