1Seat 1Engine

At some point you have to factor in the cost of supporting the Carter Doctrine into the cost of gasoline. If the military budget that was spent on keeping the Persian Gulf open was paid for via a gasoline tax, we'd have a much different view of the true cost of driving an SUV.

I would much rather over pay an American farmer with my tax dollars than continually fund Persian Gulf oil states who we also have to protect with our military.

FDXLAG

The subsidy is just making it more profitable to buy out more family farms. And we are not over paying we are subsidizing big difference.

When I am overpaying I have a choice and that choice will have an influence on the price.

ToiletDuck

No it isn't. You only get so much per company. Not per acre. It isn't more profitable at all. The subsidy makes it possible to farm at all. Without it farmers would not be able to operate. Our county in Texas was the second largest rice producer in the nation. I think it's now at 3rd. However there are few places to grow rice in the US. There is also corn, milo, cotton ect all over my region and not a single farm is ran by any large corporation.

FDXLAG

Yes it is.

We are talking about ethanol and requiring it as an additive or an alternative is a subsidy. It artificialy inflates the cost of corn. The more corn you have the more you can sell. Unless I am wrong the more acres you have the more corn you can grow. The more you sell the more subsidized profit you make.

http://www.taxpayer.net/energy/ethanol.htm

FDXLAG

False choice, keep the persian gulf open (and avoid worldwide depression) or subsidize farmers.

We already pay a hefty gas tax, if you want to earmark it for the military I am all for it.

ToiletDuck

That has nothing to do with some company buying out a family farm. Subsidies help the indipendent farmer. Not the corporation. The use of corn in ethanol is not a subsidy. Getting 50K per farm company for a certain crop is. It's money GIVEN to the farmer. Just because ethanol rises the price of corn doesn't mean anything. People eating more rises prices but that doesn't count either.

FDXLAG

The government subsidizes research into ethanol. They subsidize the production of ethanol. They require oil companies to purchase ethanol as an additive. They require car companies to modify engines to run on ethanol. This all drives up the demand (price) for corn with out driving up the cost to produce corn. More profits on corn, more money to buy acreage to grow corn.

If the federal government required ethanol to be made from cane sugar what would happen to the price of corn? What would happen to the price of sugar? What would happen to the price of ADM stock? If the federal govamint required McDonalds to sell broccoli with every hamburger, what would happen to the price of broccoli? What would happen to our landfills as they suddenly started filling up with rotten broccoli? Would you consider this a subsidy to "big broccoli"? I would.

Earlier in this post you talked about how your family is thinking about leaving farming, who would they sell to? My guess either a big corporation or a developer.

1Seat 1Engine

What I'm really saying is I'd be happy to pay a little more to, over time, de-emphasize the importance of the Staits of Hormuz to the world economy.

I don't have any hard numbers to back this up, but I feel pretty confident that, if the cost of Desert Shield/Storm/OPC/OSW/OIF was paid for by a tax on gasoline, it would dwarf the current gasoline tax.

Additionally, Persian Gulf affluence is funding the wrong side of the GWOT. Anything that keeps some of that wealth out of the Gulf, even if it's less efficient, will payoff in the long run.

Previous rant is based more on opinion than hard fact...but that's what I believe.

FDXLAG

Including drillin in ANWAR? But that is a different thread.

RedBaron007

Earmark it for the military? I think they're already getting plenty of funding (although I would say they could use that boatload of money better). Why not use a gas tax to fund initiatives to get us off of middle eastern oil - like moving to alternatives better than ethanol and while we do that finding a way to make farming corn for other uses more profitable (not ruling out continued subsidies for things other than ethanol).