Gojet preparing for CRJ 900's
07-04-2012, 07:29 PM
#31
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
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Posts: 771
How does blow jet intend to staff these new airframes? They can't even handle what they have now.
07-04-2012, 07:42 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 268
Not true. The latest ASA was signed the eve of the Ch 11 filing. While the details are deemed "confidential" and I haven't seen them, the press release talks of 1:1 and 2:1 swaps with larger airframes (read:900's). In the end 9E will be forced to be shed of at least 16 -200's, although we can all assume that number will be higher with 125 -200's being the max at DCI in the end. The idea of losing all 141 by delta simply "saying so" doesn't seem to be the case as 9E is contracted to fly them. As always, we can "assume" that performance metrics and various clauses allow for the total number to be reduced by delta's desires/actions.
Things will get interesting in the next 6-9 months to play out in 12-18 months is a given for all of DCI. Being in Ch.11 doesn't necessarily help the situation.
Things will get interesting in the next 6-9 months to play out in 12-18 months is a given for all of DCI. Being in Ch.11 doesn't necessarily help the situation.
07-04-2012, 07:53 PM
#33
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Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Not true. The latest ASA was signed the eve of the Ch 11 filing. While the details are deemed "confidential" and I haven't seen them, the press release talks of 1:1 and 2:1 swaps with larger airframes (read:900's). In the end 9E will be forced to be shed of at least 16 -200's, although we can all assume that number will be higher with 125 -200's being the max at DCI in the end. The idea of losing all 141 by delta simply "saying so" doesn't seem to be the case as 9E is contracted to fly them. As always, we can "assume" that performance metrics and various clauses allow for the total number to be reduced by delta's desires/actions.
Things will get interesting in the next 6-9 months to play out in 12-18 months is a given for all of DCI. Being in Ch.11 doesn't necessarily help the situation.
Things will get interesting in the next 6-9 months to play out in 12-18 months is a given for all of DCI. Being in Ch.11 doesn't necessarily help the situation.
I wish my former coworkers at 9E the best, but with the senior workforce that will be left as pilots are furloughed it will be difficult to compete with other carriers (i.e. Gojets) that have pilots without so much longevity. This is a tough game, and 9E is not on the good side of the cost curve in this deal. Hopefully they can improve their position relative to other regionals in terms of cost, but the sacrifices on all the pilots and senior pilots in particular to do this is going to be devastating.
What will happen is the beancounters at the crystal palace in ATL will put all the numbers into their smart pill machine, and the regionals with the best numbers in terms of cost will get the 900s. Rest assured they will work with their friends in the legal department to make sure these aircraft go where numbers dictate. Just because you're operating a bunch of 200s right now shouldn't give you a lot of comfort that 900s are coming your way if you can't compete in terms of cost.
It sucks, but that is the way this business works. Best of luck to everyone.
07-04-2012, 08:05 PM
#34
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: More Drag
Posts: 447
If you really think DL can't move aircraft they own wherever they want to then you're being incredibly naiive. The title on those aircraft say Delta, and if you think DL doesn't have some kind of clause that allows them to move them where they like, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you. There is a very, very good chance 9E will be pared down to the Mesaba 900s if they aren't cost competitive. If you don't think Delta can do this you may be in for a harsh lesson.
I wish my former coworkers at 9E the best, but with the senior workforce that will be left as pilots are furloughed it will be difficult to compete with other carriers (i.e. Gojets) that have pilots without so much longevity. This is a tough game, and 9E is not on the good side of the cost curve in this deal. Hopefully they can improve their position relative to other regionals in terms of cost, but the sacrifices on all the pilots and senior pilots in particular to do this is going to be devastating.
What will happen is the beancounters at the crystal palace in ATL will put all the numbers into their smart pill machine, and the regionals with the best numbers in terms of cost will get the 900s. Rest assured they will work with their friends in the legal department to make sure these aircraft go where numbers dictate. Just because you're operating a bunch of 200s right now shouldn't give you a lot of comfort that 900s are coming your way if you can't compete in terms of cost.
It sucks, but that is the way this business works. Best of luck to everyone.
I wish my former coworkers at 9E the best, but with the senior workforce that will be left as pilots are furloughed it will be difficult to compete with other carriers (i.e. Gojets) that have pilots without so much longevity. This is a tough game, and 9E is not on the good side of the cost curve in this deal. Hopefully they can improve their position relative to other regionals in terms of cost, but the sacrifices on all the pilots and senior pilots in particular to do this is going to be devastating.
What will happen is the beancounters at the crystal palace in ATL will put all the numbers into their smart pill machine, and the regionals with the best numbers in terms of cost will get the 900s. Rest assured they will work with their friends in the legal department to make sure these aircraft go where numbers dictate. Just because you're operating a bunch of 200s right now shouldn't give you a lot of comfort that 900s are coming your way if you can't compete in terms of cost.
It sucks, but that is the way this business works. Best of luck to everyone.
07-04-2012, 08:07 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: AN124 FE
Posts: 1,226
The new ASA was from the eve on the Ch 11. The scope section on the new contract wasnt negotiated for another couple weeks. There is obvious change needed and Delta will do what they need to do to get the results they are looking for.
07-04-2012, 08:14 PM
#36
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
If you really think DL can't move aircraft they own wherever they want to then you're being incredibly naiive. The title on those aircraft say Delta, and if you think DL doesn't have some kind of clause that allows them to move them where they like, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you. There is a very, very good chance 9E will be pared down to the Mesaba 900s if they aren't cost competitive. If you don't think Delta can do this you may be in for a harsh lesson.
I wish my former coworkers at 9E the best, but with the senior workforce that will be left as pilots are furloughed it will be difficult to compete with other carriers (i.e. Gojets) that have pilots without so much longevity. This is a tough game, and 9E is not on the good side of the cost curve in this deal. Hopefully they can improve their position relative to other regionals in terms of cost, but the sacrifices on all the pilots and senior pilots in particular to do this is going to be devastating.
What will happen is the beancounters at the crystal palace in ATL will put all the numbers into their smart pill machine, and the regionals with the best numbers in terms of cost will get the 900s. Rest assured they will work with their friends in the legal department to make sure these aircraft go where numbers dictate. Just because you're operating a bunch of 200s right now shouldn't give you a lot of comfort that 900s are coming your way if you can't compete in terms of cost.
It sucks, but that is the way this business works. Best of luck to everyone.
I wish my former coworkers at 9E the best, but with the senior workforce that will be left as pilots are furloughed it will be difficult to compete with other carriers (i.e. Gojets) that have pilots without so much longevity. This is a tough game, and 9E is not on the good side of the cost curve in this deal. Hopefully they can improve their position relative to other regionals in terms of cost, but the sacrifices on all the pilots and senior pilots in particular to do this is going to be devastating.
What will happen is the beancounters at the crystal palace in ATL will put all the numbers into their smart pill machine, and the regionals with the best numbers in terms of cost will get the 900s. Rest assured they will work with their friends in the legal department to make sure these aircraft go where numbers dictate. Just because you're operating a bunch of 200s right now shouldn't give you a lot of comfort that 900s are coming your way if you can't compete in terms of cost.
It sucks, but that is the way this business works. Best of luck to everyone.
Not only that but Delta did the DIP financing for pinnacle. The other debtors filed suit against delta to stop them from providing the financing to pinnacle because it gave them an unfair advantage. They had a meeting with the other debtors and they withdrew their objections which allowed delta to provide that financing with out further court costs or delays. What were they told that caused them to withdraw?
I, like some of the others here, believe pinnacle will see quite a few of the 900's here in exchange for our 200's. One of the main reason is as they take away the 200's we will be over staffed and have pilots on hand ready to staff the planes.
The only way delta is going to get their $73 million dollar investment back is to have us working for them. They are the reason we have been sent back to the table to renegotiate. Delta is calling our contract shots now and we will get the contract they want us to have. They will beat us down enough to get us to the level they want us at. Unfortunately it will mean we will be a smaller pilot group and all the gains we got in the new contract will be tossed out the window.
07-04-2012, 08:16 PM
#37
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
now you don't really believe that delta didn't know what they were going to get when they put their scope on the table do you?
07-04-2012, 08:20 PM
#38
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 15
They have a 2 Billion dollar investment in OH-do they care about that?
07-04-2012, 08:28 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Not necessarily true either. There was a new ASA signed when we filed for bankruptcy. Like higney said we haven't seen it but we do know the jist of what was put in it since that was put in the BK filing.
Not only that but Delta did the DIP financing for pinnacle. The other debtors filed suit against delta to stop them from providing the financing to pinnacle because it gave them an unfair advantage. They had a meeting with the other debtors and they withdrew their objections which allowed delta to provide that financing with out further court costs or delays. What were they told that caused them to withdraw?
I, like some of the others here, believe pinnacle will see quite a few of the 900's here in exchange for our 200's. One of the main reason is as they take away the 200's we will be over staffed and have pilots on hand ready to staff the planes.
The only way delta is going to get their $73 million dollar investment back is to have us working for them. They are the reason we have been sent back to the table to renegotiate. Delta is calling our contract shots now and we will get the contract they want us to have. They will beat us down enough to get us to the level they want us at. Unfortunately it will mean we will be a smaller pilot group and all the gains we got in the new contract will be tossed out the window.
Not only that but Delta did the DIP financing for pinnacle. The other debtors filed suit against delta to stop them from providing the financing to pinnacle because it gave them an unfair advantage. They had a meeting with the other debtors and they withdrew their objections which allowed delta to provide that financing with out further court costs or delays. What were they told that caused them to withdraw?
I, like some of the others here, believe pinnacle will see quite a few of the 900's here in exchange for our 200's. One of the main reason is as they take away the 200's we will be over staffed and have pilots on hand ready to staff the planes.
The only way delta is going to get their $73 million dollar investment back is to have us working for them. They are the reason we have been sent back to the table to renegotiate. Delta is calling our contract shots now and we will get the contract they want us to have. They will beat us down enough to get us to the level they want us at. Unfortunately it will mean we will be a smaller pilot group and all the gains we got in the new contract will be tossed out the window.
73 million is chump change when you look at a long term contract for these 900s. They will take the loss, send the contract to somebody cheaper, and tell all those surplus pilots to go apply there if it makes more money for mother Delta.
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